Film Score Monthly
FSM HOME MESSAGE BOARD FSM CDs FSM ONLINE RESOURCES FUN STUFF ABOUT US  SEARCH FSM   
Search Terms: 
Search Within:   search tips 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 7:48 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

I watched A STREECAR NAMED DESIRE again the other night. Because I was in the presence of people who no speak my lingo too good, we watched it dubbed into Spanish. It was horrendous! I've seen this done on many occasions. Very often the music score is completely changed in the dubbed version. I've seen THE RED HOUSE with Miklós Rózsa's score removed and replaced with the library track that was used as the End Titles for QUATERMASS AND THE PIT - on a loop throughout. For STREETCAR, somebody had removed about half of the score and replaced it with something completely generic. All quotes of the "Varsouviana" were replaced with raucous Can-Can music for example. Dreadful, and it certainly helped to ruin a masterpiece of cinema.

But anyway, in the famous scene when Stella walks sultrily down the stairs towards a rain and booze-soaked Stan (Brando), we know that the music was deemed "too provocative" and had to be rewritten by North. In the liner notes for the Goldsmith-conducted re-recording, it states (Track 6: Stan and Stella) - "Most of this scene and the music did not appear in the film. The scene and the music composed for it have now been restored. In essence "Stan and Stella" contains the material that was recorded previously as "Four Deuces".

So was North's original scoring of that scene just a reuse of "Four Deuces"? Track 2 on the Heindorf-conducted LP/CD is called "Four Deuces", but I haven't been able to tell if it's exactly the same as the restored (as originally intended) version. And does his "softened" rescore of the scene exist on CD?

I actually have both the Heindorf-conducted CD, and the Goldsmith one, but I can't pick up on the details I'm asking about, and I only heard them last night. Oh, great score! And I love both the Heindorf and the Goldsmith. In fact, just going off on a tangent, I'd always previously lumped the Goldsmith-conducted disc along with his other "boring, limp" re-recordings. But the other night it sounded pretty damn great.

Hang on, there's a "Making of" out there on YouTube. I'm in my spaceship at the moment, and although it's quite futuristic, it doesn't allow me to do direct links. So if this doesn't work you should all go to YouTube and type in "Un tranvía llamado Deseo" y la censura: "A Streetcar Named Desire and censorship). Of particular interest to us will be starting at the 9-minute mark. And Robert Townson makes an appearance.

The test is about to commence, but the spaceship cannot distinguish between I, 1 and l, so it might not work. But here goes...

https://youtu.be/FYsCFI0D0co

Added later - It wasn't working, but it is now, thanks to my sonic screwdriver. Go to the 9-min mark if you're only interested in the music.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   Anacleto   (Member)

I watched A STREECAR NAMED DESIRE again the other night. Because I was in the presence of people who no speak my lingo too good, we watched it dubbed into Spanish. It was horrendous! I've seen this done on many occasions. Very often the music score is completely changed in the dubbed version. I've seen THE RED HOUSE with Miklós Rózsa's score removed and replaced with the library track that was used as the End Titles for QUATERMASS AND THE PIT - on a loop throughout. For STREETCAR, somebody had removed about half of the score and replaced it with something completely generic. All quotes of the "Varsouviana" were replaced with raucous Can-Can music for example. Dreadful, and it certainly helped to ruin a masterpiece of cinema.



I can't comment about the above "Streetcar Named Desire" the Spanish dubbed version. But I have
come across a similar situations in which "Jungle Book" the 1942 version dubbed in German had its
entire Rozsa score replaced with unknown music. Yet Rozsa's name was still left in the opening
credits. I have heard from others were Italian dubbed prints containing Alfred Newman scores have
suffered a similar fate. I don't know the answer - maybe here on this board someone does.
But I would guess that old films dubbed after World War II had their music & effects tracks lost and
so brand new dialogue and music scores had to be added. Just a guess...

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 9:39 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I actually have both the Heindorf-conducted CD, and the Goldsmith one...

How long does your Heindorf CD run? There are two different edits.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 10:20 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Anacleto - I guessed that it was something to do with music and dialogue tracks being replaced at the one time, as if they shared the same track. But that wouldn't explain why in most cases at least part of the original score remains.

Onya - The Heindorf CD runs 55:30. It's difficult to tell exactly how much is from STREETCAR because roughly 25 minutes is taken up with suites from three Max Steiner scores. 10 tracks for STREETCAR... yeah, about half an hour I suppose.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Onya - The Heindorf CD runs 55:30. It's difficult to tell exactly how much is from STREETCAR because roughly 25 minutes is taken up with suites from three Max Steiner scores. 10 tracks for STREETCAR... yeah, about half an hour I suppose.

Load the Streetcar tracks onto a playlist and add it up. The longer edit runs close to 30 minutes. This is what appeared on the Capitol 10" album. When they combined it with Steiner for a 12" LP, the Streetcar program was cut back to around 25 minutes. The track titles are all the same, but passages within the various tracks were removed.

The various CD releases use either the 30- or 25-minute version, depending on the source. My Capitol CD with the dark green label is close to 30 minutes, reflecting the original (longer) 10" program. Or programme, if you prefer. Or pro-Graham.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 10:30 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

So happy this classic was " restored" some years back. Think I saw it on laser disc.
The Hays Code was a disaster for the art of film ( no matter what PNJ and Manderley say wink ).

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2019 - 2:42 PM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Onya - I've just checked, and although my Heindorf-conducted CD contains the lengthy Steiner pieces, the North still clocks in at almost 30 minutes. It's a kind of "grey area" (or boot) Membran release, but the tracks are listed as the same as the totally legit previous release(s).

I've realised that one of my questions in the opening post doesn't make much sense - I asked if the "as-heard-in-1951" re-scored track which accompanies Stella's provocative descent down the staircase appears on any of the soundtrack releases. You can hear it in the YouTube link I miraculously gave, around the 11-minute mark. Robert Townson is explaining. Well, I imagine it would indeed have appeared as such. Wasn't the original Heindorf-conducted score released in conjunction with the film in 1951? So, after the "too sexy" musical approach had been jettisoned, and not reinstated until... when was it... 1993? But I still can't be sure if the decaffeinated re-score is present on any of the releases. The Heindorf-half-hour was evidently truncated, but I can't remember if I haven't noticed it, but my memory span is that of an amoeba nowadays, or plankton. And I'm still unsure about the "Four Deuces" cue (Track 2 on the Heindorf) being an accurate representation for the rejected piece. As a prototype yes. But I'm getting confused.

I hope some of the above makes sense. I've had two bottles of the best Galician red wine and am feeling splendid, thanks.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2019 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Come on! It's Monday. I can understand you Americanos not wanting to spend money on the electricity in your own trailers at the weekend, but surely you're all working in your offices now, where you look at FSM all week for free.

We need more comments on this thread, which I myself called "Interesting".

 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2019 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Come on! It's Monday. I can understand you Americanos not wanting to spend money on the electricity in your own trailers at the weekend, but surely you're all working in your offices now, where you look at FSM all week for free.

We need more comments on this thread, which I myself called "Interesting".


Trailers?

More like homeless shelters.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2019 - 4:02 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Come on! It's Monday. I can understand you Americanos not wanting to spend money on the electricity in your own trailers at the weekend, but surely you're all working in your offices now, where you look at FSM all week for free.

We need more comments on this thread, which I myself called "Interesting".


Yes, it most certainly is an interesting thread! I will compare the CDs, re-read your original post, and see if I can shed any light on your question.

Luckily, you won't have to worry about bad Spanish dubs for much longer. When the UK leaves the EU, Spain will kick you out and send you back to Scotland - unless Scotland declares its independence and stays with the EU. wink

 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2019 - 7:37 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

Nobody cares Watt.
Accept it and the pain stops.

 
You must log in or register to post.
  Go to page:    
© 2019 Film Score Monthly. All Rights Reserved...