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 Posted:   Oct 8, 2019 - 1:48 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

This is trivia but may be of interest to the young and folks those outside the USA. The HEIDI telecast's claim to fame had nothing to do with John Williams's early achievement. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-heidi-bowl

 
 Posted:   Oct 8, 2019 - 3:09 PM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

What post Thor?
You made no such post.
Maybe you're being deleted out of existence.


It was preempted by a football game.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 8, 2019 - 3:47 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

This is trivia but may be of interest to the young and folks those outside the USA. The HEIDI telecast's claim to fame had nothing to do with John Williams's early achievement. https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/the-heidi-bowl

Yes, that's fairly common knowledge, at least for Williams fans. It's in the liner notes too.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 8, 2019 - 6:49 PM   
 By:   Paul MacLean   (Member)

Obviously, I think both THE REIVERS and JANE EYRE are stronger scores, but they were NOT the first that defined the Williams we know today in terms of style. That was HEIDI.

I never said The Reivers was the first score to define his style. But I submit it was his first truly great score.

The Reivers was also one of the most important catalysts in Williams' later success, as it was the score that brought him to the attention of Steven Spielberg.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 8, 2019 - 7:23 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

Well if we are getting technical when I heard THE RARE BREED in a movie theater in 1966 that was the first time the symphonic John Williams registered with me. HEIDI was the second. Although a few of his comedies like FITZWILLY and HOW TO STEAL A MILLION gave me a sense of what was to come.


 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 1:14 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I also think REIVERS, STORY OF A WOMAN & JANE EYRE were the major transformation scores in the passage of 60's Johnny Williams to 70's John Williams.
Sure, HEIDI has some strong passages, but no more so than things like THE RARE BREED or NONE BUT THE BRAVE.
There's a world of difference, to me, in listening to the latter 3 I mentioned, compared to the first 3.
That's not MY opinion, that's a FACT wink

 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 2:11 AM   
 By:   judy the hutt   (Member)

What post Thor?
You made no such post.
Maybe you're being deleted out of existence.


It was preempted by a football game.


actually Heidi was shown in its entirety as I watched the Jets play the Raiders but the last two minutes or so was cut off and the movie then came on.

 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 2:11 AM   
 By:   judy the hutt   (Member)

duplicate entry

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 3:35 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Sure, HEIDI has some strong passages, but no more so than things like THE RARE BREED or NONE BUT THE BRAVE.

Oh, I definitely think it does. NONE BUT THE BRAVE has a more brooding quality, at times reminiscent of Rozsa. It's not typical of latter-day Williams. THE RARE BREED is a fine western score, but not the straight out neo-romantic quality of his later works. It's pretty much interchangeable with other western scores he did at the time, for both film and TV.

As I said, there are a number of his early scores that preshadow his later style (heck, the ostinato in the main theme of 1961's THE SECRET WAYS seems like a precursor to "Duel of the Fates"), but we're not talking about bits and bobs here; we're talking about a score that is consistently -- throughout the whole -- a score that could easily have been composed in his later, lush style. HEIDI is that score, no contest. Even if it is a lesser work compared to a lot of other titles in the immediate years preceding and following it. John Takis even talks about this in his liner notes, if memory serves.

As for THE REIVERS, I agree that it's probably Williams' strongest score of the 60s (even though I have a very soft spot for the NOT WITH MY WIFE YOU DON'T soundtrack album), and an incredibly important one in terms of the Spielberg connection and all that. But if it's anything in terms of style, it's an example of a particular "sub sound" he excels at, the 'gritty', down-and-dirty Americana style. Not a precursor to the STAR WARSes and INDIANA JONESes and HARRY POTTERs of this world. HEIDI, however, is.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 4:35 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

I'm sorry Thor, but I couldn't disagree with you ANY more.
Reivers has no such 'sub sound/gritty down n dirty' (I honestly have NO IDEA what you're referring to here or what that even means). It sound EXACTLY LIKE the scores he would go on to write throughout the 70's (CONRACK/COWBOYS/CAT DANCING/MISSOURI BREAKS).
HEIDI has a flourishing Alpine flavoured romantic main theme, but contains lots of comedic/japery music from his 60's comedy scores.
And John Takis is entitled to his opinion, as are you yours.
BUT trying to force that opinion onto others is both pointless and ignorant.
I HEAR lots of STORY OF A WOMAN that would foreshadow his dark/romantic scores to come in the 70's and beyond. And JANE EYRE really focused his RVW/English writing.
Certainly moreso than anything in HEIDI.
If you really like HEIDI, that's fine. All well and good.
But don't elevate it above some of his more important and influential scores, just because YOU hear what many others DON'T.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 4:59 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Reivers has no such 'sub sound/gritty down n dirty' (I honestly have NO IDEA what you're referring to here or what that even means). It sound EXACTLY LIKE the scores he would go on to write throughout the 70's (CONRACK/COWBOYS/CAT DANCING/MISSOURI BREAKS).

Yes, that's EXACTLY the sound I mean. You can throw in later works too, like ROSEWOOD. It's what I call 'gritty, down-and-dirty' -- banjos, harmonicas, Jew's harp, that kind of folksy stuff, rather than the broad, Aaron Coplandesque Americana. This is a sound JW excels at, but it's a sub category of his. It has nothing to do with the later romantic stylings that he is most known for.

If you really like HEIDI, that's fine. All well and good.

Actually, I don't particularly like it. It's merely OK, in my opinion. The film's position in history is a mere blip (had it not been for the Super Bowl incident), and the score is largely forgotten. But there is NO QUESTION that it is the first time we heard the John Williams style he is most known for today, except for bits and bobs in his earlier scores. He would refine it a couple of years later, with scores like STORIA and JANE EYRE, but its position as 'first contemporary-style, neo-romantic JW' is firmly cemented in stone.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 5:15 AM   
 By:   Kev McGann   (Member)

We'll have to agree to disagree, cos I don't hear ANYTHING in HEIDI that states 'this is the John Williams who will go on to write big, broad action adventure scores like STAR WARS/INDY/HARRY POTTER/JURASSIC' any more than stuff he also did around that period.
But the other scores I mentioned lit the sparks that ignited into the fully fledged John Williams music I know and love today.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 5:26 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Yes, we most certainly have to agree to disagree. Wish I had John Takis' liner notes handy, because he expresses it better than I do.

 
 Posted:   Oct 9, 2019 - 8:38 AM   
 By:   Mr. Marshall   (Member)

What post Thor?
You made no such post.
Maybe you're being deleted out of existence.


It was preempted by a football game.


actually Heidi was shown in its entirety as I watched the Jets play the Raiders but the last two minutes or so was cut off and the movie then came on.


We are talking about THOR'S post.

 
 Posted:   Oct 10, 2019 - 5:12 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

It was interesting to hear him say the work has taken him away from his kids and so on, even for films that weren't that important. It's the kind of thing you don't think about as a fan.

And from a curiosity standpoint, I enjoyed learning that he doesn't listen to music himself, and why.


too bad - he is missing out.


Maybe not, Judy. Surely you have some ability that you've done for a lifetime, and can't really take other people's way of doing it. (I'm that way about the food choices I see being offered as a meal these days.)

 
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