One of the time-honored traditions here at FSM is the creation of threads devoted to important jazz artists. These threads receive dozens of views and even elicit the occasional response.
So, here is a thread devoted to the great composer, arranger, bassist, and occasional pianist Charles Mingus.
THOR ALERT: Many of Charles Mingus's classic albums have been expanded, and jazz fans - just like film score fans - are often divided over which are better: the original album edits, or the expanded versions.
Ya see? We're not so different after all!
A few years ago, I started a thread titled "Real Jazz That Sounds Like Crime Jazz." I included this Charles Mingus classic from "Mingus Ah Um," - a track which would fit nicely on Stanley Wilson's "M Squad" LP.
So, here is a film-score-friendly track for Mingus uninitiated:
East Coasting, Oh Yeah!, Blues and Roots, Mingus Plays Piano, The Black Saint and the Sinner Lady, The Complete Town Hall Concert, and Jazz Portraits: Mingus in Wonderland are only a few Mingus albums I've loved over the decades.
I prefer the albums without the bonus tracks, but there are also times when I'll be in an outtakes mood and listen to those exclusively. Mingus is one of the select artists for whom I will do that.
I'll pipe in with some more wondrous thoughts luego.
I prefer the albums without the bonus tracks, but there are also times when I'll be in an out takes mood and listen to those exclusively. Mingus is one of the select artists for whom I will do that.
I think the arguments center less around the bonus tracks and more around the unedited takes of tunes. The unedited versions will often include an additional chorus by the soloist, or a soloist who was cut entirely from the master take.
Proponents of the unedited versions argue that cuts had to be made to accommodate LP space limits.
Proponents of the edited versions argue that Mingus went into the sessions deliberately recording more solos than he wished to use, and that the longer takes simply provided him with the flexibility to choose the best solos.
I personally love the longer versions as comparisons, but I would never want to be without the versions approved by Mingus.
Thanks to spellcheck for turning "albums" into "album's."
I have adjusted your quote to remove the offending apostrophe. If you also remove it from your original post, it will soon fade from memory and leave no trace.
The Columbia albums are well regarded, and I like them fine, but it's Mingus' Atlantic albums I prefer. The Atlantic albums are more "raw" whereas the Columbia albums are highly polished, at least to this old cotton-eared listener. Maybe it's just the CD mastering?
The Columbia albums are well regarded, and I like them fine, but it's Mingus' Atlantic albums I prefer. The Atlantic albums are more "raw" whereas the Columbia albums are highly polished, at least to this old cotton-eared listener. Maybe it's just the CD mastering?
There is certainly more reverb on the Columbia albums, thanks to Mitch Miller. He was all about reverb.
My first Mingus album, purchased on my busboy's salary while in high school, was "Blues and Roots" on Atlantic.
See? I knew a Charles Mingus thread would be a smash hit here!
There is certainly more reverb on the Columbia albums, thanks to Mitch Miller. He was all about reverb.
(Oh) Yeah, I really don't like the Columbia Sound. I didn't know Mitch Miller was involved in the jazz side of the label.
Besides, I prefer the IMPULSE! version of what is probably Mingus' best-known composition, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat." It would make an appropriate musical underscore to shots of 50-something-year-old manchildren exiting the multiplex; despondent, beaten, and still virgins after yet another suicidal viewing of the latest Star Wars sequel.
Onya, have you ever seen the 1968 MINGUS documentary? It chronicles Charles' days in November (?) 1966 leading to his eviction from his NYC shambles of a loft.
(Oh) Yeah, I really don't like the Columbia Sound. I didn't know Mitch Miller was involved in the jazz side of the label.
Besides, I prefer the IMPULSE! version of what is probably Mingus' best-known composition, "Goodbye Pork Pie Hat." It would make an appropriate musical underscore to shots of 50-something-year-old manchildren exiting the multiplex; despondent, beaten, and still virgins after yet another suicidal viewing of the latest Star Wars sequel.
Onya, have you ever seen the 1968 MINGUS documentary? It chronicles Charles' days in November (?) 1966 leading to his eviction from his NYC shambles of a loft.
I like the reverb on Columbia's vocal albums. I can't imagine Tony Bennett and Johnny Mathis without the reverb. They wouldn't sound like themselves without it.
Mitch wasn't directly involved with the jazz side, except tangentially. For example, he conducted the orchestra on one of Erroll Garner's albums. He may have pushed the reverb thing through his executive role.
Don't know that Mingus documentary. I'll see if I can find it on the InterTubes.
As for the popularity of this thread, I will quote drinker and sometimes writer Dorothy Parker: "You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think."
I like the reverb on Columbia's vocal albums. I can't imagine Tony Bennett and Johnny Mathis without the reverb. They wouldn't sound like themselves without it.
I run hot and cold on Bennett and especially on Mathis; as Thor would say, "I don't have a connection to those artists."
Mathis gets a tip of the cap for "It's Not For Me to Say" and Tony for the Evans duet album (the one with "Some Other Time")
I like the reverb on Columbia's vocal albums. I can't imagine Tony Bennett and Johnny Mathis without the reverb. They wouldn't sound like themselves without it.
I run hot and cold on Bennett and especially on Mathis; as Thor would say, "I don't have a connection to those artists."
Mathis gets a tip of the cap for "It's Not For Me to Say" and Tony for the Evans duet album (the one with "Some Other Time")
I love Evans's playing on that album, but Tony sounds rough. That was during his cocaine period after he was dumped by Columbia.
I run hot and cold on both artists, but their best albums are great. Check out "Open Fire, Two Guitars" by Johnny Mathis.
Onya, have you ever seen the 1968 MINGUS documentary? It chronicles Charles' days in November (?) 1966 leading to his eviction from his NYC shambles of a loft.
We just watched this tonight!
Another reason you may dislike the Columbia album. The stereo versions are mixed weird. Mingus's bass is one channel, and the drums are overbearingly loud in the center. The mono versions are much better.
Columbia Records has always left me cold. Sure, I love Kind of Blue, but the label had zero "personality."
On the other hand, Blue Note had Alfred Lion and Francis Wolff, Atlantic had the Ertegun brothers, Riverside had Orrin Keepnews, Pacific had Richard Bock, and Impulse! had Creed Taylor and Bob Thiele. That individualistic spirit is part of what made jazz and those albums so great.
Columbia Records has always left me cold. Sure, I love Kind of Blue, but the label had zero "personality."
On the other hand, Blue Note had Alfred Lion and Francis Wolff, Atlantic had the Ertegun brothers, Riverside had Orrin Keepnews, Pacific had Richard Bock, and Impulse! had Creed Taylor and Bob Thiele. That individualistic spirit is part of what made jazz and those albums so great.
Columbia had George Avakian and Teo Macero.
In fairness to Columbia, they were one of only two major labels - the other being Mercury - that made a serious and sustained commitment to maintaining a jazz roster in the postwar period. Capitol and RCA dabbled, and Decca hardly had any.
By the way, any idea what happened to Mingus's daughter?
Avakian and Macero were just employees of The Man, man.
No idea what happened to Carolyn(?). She may still be in that loft, still trying to pull apart that rope.
The documentary's director, Thomas Reichman, committed suicide in 1975. I don't know why his film remains the neglected obscurity. I prefer it to "Triumph of the Underdog."
Has the Reichman film ever been issued on DVD? I first watched it in Summer 1994 on the low-rent PBS station, WLRN. As I recall, I recorded it and then went to see "The Phantom" at the local second-run cinema.
Avakian and Macero were just employees of The Man, man.
No idea what happened to Carolyn(?). She may still be in that loft, still trying to pull apart that rope.
The documentary's director, Thomas Reichman, committed suicide in 1975. I don't know why his film remains the neglected obscurity. I prefer it to "Triumph of the Underdog."
Has the Reichman film ever been issued on DVD? I first watched it in Summer 1994 on the low-rent PBS station, WLRN. As I recall, I recorded it and then went to see "The Phantom" at the local second-run cinema.
We watched the film on YouTube. I did think the film was kind of a mess. Abrupt edits between performances and rambling monologues. Was the eviction at the end meant to elicit a surprise reaction? It seemed to come out of nowhere. Maybe that was the director's intention. Then again, I was on my third or fourth Old Fashioned by the time we watched this.
It's supposed to be what the kids refer to as "Cinéma vérité", and having watched it with that in mind, the director's choices make sense. It was disturbing yet fascinating to see dirty, dingy NYC nearing its descent into near-complete chaos.
