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 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 1:15 PM   
 By:   Cameron007   (Member)

I love Horner's scores for TWOK and SFS. However, ever since I got into Goldsmith's TMP score, I couldn't help but wonder... how would TWOK have turned out if he had scored it after all?

Speculate away!

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 1:28 PM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

It would have been awful.
Goldsmith would have been just entering his 'synth farts' era and his best years were behind him, while up and coming buck-o James Horner was eager to please and really giving it his (and everybody else's) all.
Plus, the look and design of the film was so different to The Motion Picture, it needed that fresh new lick o' paint Horner managed to give it.

I actually wish that Horner had got to score the comedic/light hearted ST4 Voyage Home, instead of Leonard Rosenman (even though I do really enjoy LR's effort).
It would have been interesting to hear how Horner would have scored it in a lighter vein.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 1:49 PM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

Hmmm...on the one hand, I love the idea of hearing more of the Enterprise theme from TMP but on the other hand, Horner's score for TWOK was what made me a fan in the first place.

I think JG would have maybe done better with SFS due to the slower pacing and character development. Heavier synths in TWOK would have ruined the swashbuckling/seafaring approach that Meyer was going for--the score to TWOK needed to be majority orchestral.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 1:56 PM   
 By:   Adam B.   (Member)

Seeing that Goldsmith had a half dozen films released that year even he would have been hard-pressed to come up with something great. But if anyone could have done it, it would have been him. The synth-fart phase didn't start until the mid-eighties (Legend, Extreme Prejudice, etc.).

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 2:12 PM   
 By:   Dylan   (Member)

A Goldsmith score would've been great, but wasn't Miklos Rozsa the director's first choice?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 2:14 PM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

Well, although the kitschy synth fart stage was the mid 80s, he was still adding unyieldy electronics to things all through the 70s (Illustrated Man, Logans Run, Damnation Alley...even the film version of the MacArthur Main Title has some WTF synth noises going on).
There's a story that Spielberg warned him to lay off them in 82, when scoring Poltergeist.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 2:23 PM   
 By:   johnbijl   (Member)

Goldsmith’s Score would have been thrown out, in favour on a late in the game score by Horner.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 2:23 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

Well, although the kitschy synth fart stage was the mid 80s, he was still adding unyieldy electronics to things all through the 70s (Illustrated Man, Logans Run, Damnation Alley...even the film version of the MacArthur Main Title has some WTF synth noises going on).
There's a story that Spielberg warned him to lay off them in 82, when scoring Poltergeist.



And, if true, then it's entirely possible that Meyer would have said the same thing to him, anyhow.
Meyer wanted an old-fashioned submarine movie, and it's a fair bet he would have had JG tone down the synths just to keep the music in the same emotional space as the film.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 2:43 PM   
 By:   Nono   (Member)

1982 was a great year for Jerry Goldsmith:

The Night Crossing
Poltergeist
The Secret of Nimh
First Blood

The Challenge was also pretty good, even if it's not as great as the others.

So I'm glad he didn't do Star Trek II that year. And I don't particularly like the other Star Trek scores he later did: they may be nice, but they really pale in comparison with what he did for the original movie in 1979.

If he had scored it, it would have been excellent, though.

It would have probably been less noisy than what James Horner did... big grin

I much prefer his score for Star Trek III.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 2:50 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

And once again everyone forgets/ignores the SECRET OF NIMH! A operatic orchestral masterpiece that came out the same summer as WOK! Goldsmith was in his prime and I think he would've delivered an emotionally impactful score. I just don't see him going all kitsch on WOK.

That said I'm glad Horner got the gig. It's probably his best score and while different, equally as good as TMP. This jump started Horner's career which he may not have had otherwise. Goldsmith on the other hand was able to write one of the best animated scores for one of the best animated films of all time.

Now answer me this... What if Goldsmith scored An American Tail instead of Horner?
Hmmm, Horner was really following Goldsmiths footsteps back then wasn't he?

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 3:29 PM   
 By:   Tom Maguire   (Member)

Even though TWOK's music is what got me into Film Scores, a Jerry score would have been fine.
The bigger what if is a Horner score for IV.
2, 3 and 4 are a trilogy and the change in composers has bugged for 34 years.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 4:28 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

He would have ended up doing the scores for the entire film series, and at the end, he'd get his picture on a Hamilton Collection commemorative plate. At least that's what Criswell told me.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 4:42 PM   
 By:   patrick_runkle   (Member)

Even though TWOK's music is what got me into Film Scores, a Jerry score would have been fine.
The bigger what if is a Horner score for IV.
2, 3 and 4 are a trilogy and the change in composers has bugged for 34 years.


Another big what-if is a Jerry score for Generations in 1994. No disrespect to McCarthy, but obviously the lukewarm reception to Generations convinced Berman that a broader canvas was necessary both cinematically and musically in some instances, which led to the Voyager theme, which led to First Contact.

The First Contact and Insurrection scores have so many nice moments, I'm convinced Jerry could have (as only he could) elevated parts of Generations that needed elevating--or at least the music would have more memorable than the movie! Considering that he did The River Wild in three weeks or whatever that fall, it seems like he could have come in and done it. (Although given how terrible the Jarre score to The River Wild was and how much money they probably threw his way, maybe he would have chosen that one anyway.)

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 4:57 PM   
 By:   Spinmeister   (Member)

re: Generations

I'll telly ya what, the Duras sisters' sneak attack and the resulting crash landing would have been FOOKIN' AMAZE-BALLS!!!

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 6:19 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

It's silly to speculate, but bear in mind that Horner got his start doing a score that, in places, was an almost complete and total rip-off of ST:TMP (BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS). Admittedly, that was probably at the direction of Corman and not Horner's choice, but...who knows? It's pretty obvious who was the humble padawan (to mix SF franchise metaphors) and who was The Master.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 6:47 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

It's silly to speculate, but bear in mind that Horner got his start doing a score that, in places, was an almost complete and total rip-off of ST:TMP (BATTLE BEYOND THE STARS). Admittedly, that was probably at the direction of Corman and not Horner's choice, but...who knows? It's pretty obvious who was the humble padawan (to mix SF franchise metaphors) and who was The Master.

Never noticed that before. I'm well aware BBTS's was a precursor for WOK and Horner clearly developed his own themes for Trek. Spinning BBTS's rigth now and indeed I hear the temp tracking.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 6:52 PM   
 By:   Khan   (Member)

Even though TWOK's music is what got me into Film Scores, a Jerry score would have been fine.
The bigger what if is a Horner score for IV.
2, 3 and 4 are a trilogy and the change in composers has bugged for 34 years.


Imagine if Rosenman had scored TSFS like Nimoy originally wanted!

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 6:55 PM   
 By:   Tom Maguire   (Member)

Even though TWOK's music is what got me into Film Scores, a Jerry score would have been fine.
The bigger what if is a Horner score for IV.
2, 3 and 4 are a trilogy and the change in composers has bugged for 34 years.


Imagine if Rosenman had scored TSFS like Nimoy originally wanted!


Never heard that.
I'd always heard they couldn't get James for IV because he cost too much by 1986.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

I think about how Goldsmith might have got along with Nicholas Meyer. Horner was a relatively new composer at the time and possibly more apt at bending towards the director's desires as Goldsmith possibly may have had an attitude of "trust me Nick, I know what I'm doing" and might have just wanted to continue his main theme and then most likely coming up with a "Khan" Theme that could have sounded a tad "Middle Eastern" or "Sheikish". Who really knows? I liked how the sequence of scores and composers went. Would have been nice for Horner to complete the "Wrath thru Voyage Home" Trilogy. I just read in an old "Legend" Jerry Goldsmith Magazine where someone wrote that Leonard Nimoy had a falling out with Horner after SEARCH FOR SPOCK and subsequently hired his old friend Leonard Rosenman to take the reins. Don't know how true that is, but I thought Rosenman's score was okay and it fit the tone of the picture pretty nicely. Always also thought that Goldsmith's music was in a way, too good for the NEXT GENERATION pictures and was probably the best thing about all of those. Never thought NEXT GEN was good on the big screen. I don't know if they really ever earned the stature the Original Cast did to transfer to the big screen, but of course that was all about money. As Lionel Newman would say "That's Howley wooed!"

Just my few cents.

 
 Posted:   Apr 5, 2020 - 8:00 PM   
 By:   Spinmeister   (Member)

Imagine if Rosenman had scored TSFS like Nimoy originally wanted!

Despite "Stealing the Enterprise" being amongst my top tier Horner tracks, I'd certainly would have welcomed an action-oriented, sci-fi Rosenman score.

And sure, it's a no-brainer Goldsmith would have knocked Khan right out of the park, but then I'd have to give up "Genesis Countdown" in return and, well, the thought of that leaves me uneasy. Those whooping horns!

 
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