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 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 1:48 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Over four years ago I held an informal, unofficial poll here about what Varese-owned-in-perpetuity Goldsmith scores you most hoped they would tackle next in a definitive edition:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?pageID=1&forumID=1&threadID=114138&archive=0

Since that time, several of the scores have received definitive editions, including the three top winners of the poll (1. Small Soldiers with 29 votes, 2. Air Force One with 23 votes, 3. U.S. Marshals with 19 votes) -- and funnily enough they arrived in that order, so I wonder if someone from Varese had their eyes on the thread and were paying attention to what people were asking for! (More likely, people's preferences here were also mirrored in the requests Varese received directly.) For those wondering, the original top five was rounded out by The 13th Warrior (15 votes) and The Other (14 votes).

We also got complete new editions of The Omen, The Haunting, and most surprisingly of all, an amazing remastered restoration of Planet of the Apes (and Escape from the Planet of the Apes), included in LLL's fantastic franchise box set last year, sub-licensed from Varese! (I wonder if LLL might work out similar deals for definitive editions of The Other, The Mephisto Waltz, and the two Flint scores.)

In addition, Robert Townson confirmed he personally controls (through his company Masters Film Music) the scores to The Final Conflict and Lionheart, and Peter Hackman revealed on FB that Robert also controls The 'Burbs, in case anyone is interested in a reissue of that. Furthermore Varese earlier confirmed on FB that they do not hold perpetuity rights on Leviathan, which they released in 1989, so I have removed it from the list of options as it could very well (and would most likely) come out on a different label.

I have received multiple requests from folks to hold a new poll now, as many current board members were not here at the time of the last poll and several new people have even posted votes in that old thread after the poll had long closed with the votes tallied. So here we go!

First, a thorough review of the voting options with details about missing music (EDIT: I have also added some wonderful new covers designed by Spinmeister in the Custom Cover Art III thread, which he was inspired to do because of my post -- they really help the imagination soar with the possibilities, IMO...):

Our Man Flint (1966)
In Like Flint (1967) -- Intrada premiered the full wonderful LP album recordings of these two fun scores a few years ago, but the original film recordings are very different and much longer. Varese released a twofer with excerpts from both back in the 90s, and thus is the only label who can expand on those film recordings for CD. We do at least know that the complete scores survive thanks to Twilight Time, which included the full score tracks from the films as an isolated bonus feature on their Blu-ray releases. While offering a great deal more music, these iso tracks are still not complete because they replicate microedits and omit all music that the films themselves omitted. Therefore a complete Deluxe Edition for both scores is essential!





The Ballad of Cable Hogue (1970) -- While Varese rarely acquired perpetuity rights for their limited Club releases like this one, I think this is a case where they did, because they are still selling the album digitally on iTunes. I have heard that a few short cues were omitted from their CD, though I have yet to confirm this.
EDIT: Steven Lloyd weighs in below, with details confirming that about two minutes of great score material (at least) is unreleased, plus the film version of the title song, plus some original source music.



The Mephisto Waltz (1971) -- EDIT: The Varese 90s release of this score was not complete as previously thought. MarkS below in this thread outlines at least three cues missing from the Varese CD edition of this score, and Steven Lloyd confirms. If these could be restored and the whole recording given the Mattesino/Bulk/Malone treatment with modern technology, I'd be all over a new issue! (The Varese edition also has mixing issues and some missing overlays/sweeteners.)



The Other (1972) -- A 22 minute single track suite (with source music annoyingly mixed in) was released as a "bonus" on Varese's Mephisto Waltz album, similar to how they included a lengthy suite from Escape from the Planet of the Apes on the end of their Planet of the Apes album. It was confirmed by Kritzerland's Bruce Kimmel years ago that this granted them perpetuity rights to this title (otherwise he would have released it complete long ago). A superb and underrated score, the absence of a Deluxe Edition is particularly frustrating because many cues were written and recorded but dropped from the film. As with the Flints, Twilight Time released the score as an isolated track when they put the film out on Blu-ray, restoring some of these unused cues in the process. Their iso track almost doubles the length of the music available, but a CD release (with separate tracks for each cue, as Varese teased us with three of them on their Jerry Goldsmith at 20th Century Fox box set) is still very deserved, especially since like the Flint scores, film micro-edits were still preserved and in fact the Varese suite features some music that is not on the Twilight Time track.



Damien: Omen II (1978) -- The Varese Deluxe Edition was the only one of the trilogy that included the complete score, but sadly the film recording had inferior sound quality and even was outright damaged in a couple places. I've added this to the poll because many people have expressed a desire for Michael Mattesino (or perhaps Chris Malone, the wizard who rescued Take Her, She's Mine?) to tackle the tapes with current sound restoration tools.

Raggedy Man (1981) -- This received a much-needed reissue as Robert Townson's final Goldsmith release at Varese (and he confirmed to me in an interview that they do indeed control it in perpetuity), but it was a straight Encore Edition and very limited so that it sold out extremely quickly. This is a great score and if there's any other music on the original recording sessions to be premiered (though there wasn't much more in the film), I think a new edition would still be welcomed by many.



Love Field (1991) -- This is surprisingly perhaps the most tantalizing title on this list for me, because the score was largely rejected: there are substantial cues on the existing short album but missing in the film, and similarly multiple cues in the film (including a key highlight) that were left off the album. According to Roger and Doug over at the Intrada board, there is likely music written and recorded that no one has heard yet, and it seems quite a few cues may have unreleased alternate recordings:
http://www.intrada.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=7704&sid=e4b531e2d606fba6d95926ce131a1d8e



Mom and Dad Save the World (1991) -- This quirky and underrated score is like an honorary Dante score to me, in terms of its zany sound. There is a substantial amount of missing music included on an unmentionable but in terrible sound quality; a new Deluxe Edition is a must!



Medicine Man (1992) -- A highlight of Goldsmith's 90s output, we know there is at least a quarter hour of unreleased music thanks to DeputyRiley's fine Complete Score Breakdown:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=109823&forumID=1&archive=0



Mr. Baseball (1992) -- This score is much-derided (despite a pretty love theme) and would probably be near the bottom of most people's lists in terms of wanting an expansion, but despite some annoying parts I think it has its charms. There are just a handful of short unreleased cues: https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=138082&forumID=1&archive=0



Malice (1993) -- DeputyRiley did a complete score breakdown and found only 7 minutes of unreleased music in the film, though as always there may be unused cues or alternates that he couldn't account for:
http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110814&forumID=1&archive=0



Matinee (1993) -- Perhaps the most underrated of all Jerry's collaborations with Joe Dante, as with Mom and Dad Save the World there is a lengthy unmentionable with much more music but with extremely poor sound quality. With Small Soldiers now complete, I hope Varese next turns their sights to this delightful score, one of only two Dante collaborations yet to get a full release. Here's a taste of the unreleased music -- an action cue pointed out by none other than Roger Feigelson at the Intrada forum (to me it sounds like something out of Twilight's Last Gleaming!):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/63xpcoqz1um2rkd/Number%204.mp3?dl=0



Rudy (1993) -- The DVD release had the complete score included as an isolated track, although obviously this was in lossy audio with film fades and edits. While the missing music is only more variations on the same material on album, they are lovely variations and I'd still love to have the whole thing on CD.



Angie (1994) -- I have yet to see the film to see how much missing music there is in terms of length, but there seem to be nine unreleased cues: https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=138083&forumID=1&archive=0



City Hall (1996) -- According to DeputyRiley's Complete Score Breakdown, there's about 12 minutes of music in the film that's unreleased on album (one of those cues a highlight), but it's always possible that there are unused cues or alternates that could bulk up an expansion even more: http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110759&forumID=1&archive=0



L.A. Confidential (1997) -- Similar to Rudy in that the complete score was released as an isolated track on DVD, but deserves a complete and lossless release on CD.



The 13th Warrior (1999) -- About 18 minutes are unreleased, and while there are no particularly standout cues among these, it is still made up of good variations on the released material and I trust will be put out some day, hopefully with Graeme Revell's unused score which was one of his strongest works.



Hollow Man (2000) -- It'd be wonderful to get an official CD release of this last Goldsmith/Verhoeven collaboration, although there was a full isolated score track for this on DVD as with L.A. Confidential and Rudy.



Along Came a Spider (2001) -- About 24 minutes are unreleased, as revealed by this Complete Score Breakdown by David Maxx:
http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=124338&forumID=1&archive=0



Timeline (2003) -- A wonderfully complex score with both sci-fi and fantasy elements, an official release of the complete "unused" work would be great to get even though Varese's existing album was one of their more successful abbreviated arrangements.



Looney Tunes: Back in Action (2003) -- Jerry's final work was a wonderfully energetic, exuberant, and creative score, but Varese's initial album was unsatisfying because it seemed to lack a narrative flow or conclusion, in part because John Debney's contribution to the finale was left unreleased. A definitive release with all the music recorded for the film would be a godsend.



NOTE -- Varese definitely does NOT control the following scores in perpetuity despite their previous releases: Leviathan, Lionheart, The Final Conflict, The 'Burbs (see above), MacArthur (they only licensed the original UMG-owned album, which itself was a re-recording; the film recording is unreleased), the album recording of Masada (same situation as MacArthur and Explorers), The Secret of NIMH (expanded by Intrada in the past few years though still not complete), Supergirl (expanded by Silva in the 90s; as with Legend they hold perpetuity rights themselves as a result), and Link (since re-released by both Intrada and LLL, though not expanded as the missing cues apparently do not survive in good sound quality). They also do not control the remaining unexpanded titles premiered in their Goldsmith at Fox box (just as with most titles premiered in their Club line like Magic): Anna and the King, A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, S*P*Y*S, and The Chairman. (This should be obvious because Intrada has since reissued/expanded Von Ryan's Express, Shock Treatment, The Detective, Fate Is the Hunter, Alien, and Damnation Alley from that box, but I wanted to point it out because several of these received multiple votes last time despite not being on my list so I thought I would explain why so folks don't use up one of their limited five choices to vote for something Varese doesn't even have rights for.)

Last time I made this poll a top 5, but so may people provided more than that last time that I figured I may as well increase the limit. Board member Tom McGuire also asked in the thread, about a year after I held the poll,
"Any chance we can expand this to a top 10 ranked choice vote?"

The answer is "YES" -- IF everyone who participates takes the trouble to rank their choices. If a bunch of people participate without providing a ranking, I will have to just give one equally-weighted point to everything that gets a vote.

Without further ado, here are my top 10 picks, and I invite everyone else to do the same:

1. Love Field
2. Medicine Man
3. The Other
4. Mom and Dad Save the World
5. Our Man Flint
6. The Mephisto Waltz (given a Mattesino/Bulk/Malone restoration with Jeff Bond or John Takis liner notes)
7. City Hall
8. Looney Tunes: Back in Action
9. Matinee
10. In Like Flint


Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 2:05 PM   
 By:   jfallon   (Member)

With MARSHALLS now in my hands I didn’t think I would want any more expanded Goldsmiths but after reading your post Yavar Love Field, Leviathan and Matinee are now on my radar...

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

1) Along Came a Spider
2) 13th Warrior
3) L.A. Confidential
4) Hollow Man

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 2:23 PM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

1) The Other
2) The Mephisto Waltz
3) In Like Flint
4) Our Man Flint

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 2:28 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I may be tempted by the Flint scores IF they are mixed better than they were on that dreadful 1990s CD.

But what I really want is more of that Twilight Zone NERVOUS ANGULAR LONGHAIR sound. Any unreleased stuff in the CBS Library?

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   Gold Digger   (Member)

Hollow Man
Mom And Dad Save The World
Matinee
Final Conflict with the missing Speaker’s Corner cue.

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 2:36 PM   
 By:   Spinmeister   (Member)

1. Hollow Man
2. Looney Tunes: BiA
3: Mom and Dad Save the World
4: Along Came a Spider
5: Matinee
6: L.A. Confidential
7: Love Field
8: City Hall
9: The Other
10: Malice

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 3:02 PM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

I may be tempted by the Flint scores IF they are mixed better than they were on that dreadful 1990s CD.

The isolated stereo tracks on the Twilight Time Blu-rays sounded pretty good (except for the damaged tracks (a few tracks with wow). I made a CD of In Like Flint, & it's become a favourite. Over to you Varese.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 3:09 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Nothing.

I primarily need to fill a few essential OST holes in my collection (digitally or physically), before I can even consider any wishes. Under any circumstance, those wishes would be premiere releases, not expanded releases or the like.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 3:17 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I may be tempted by the Flint scores IF they are mixed better than they were on that dreadful 1990s CD.

The isolated stereo tracks on the Twilight Time Blu-rays sounded pretty good (except for the damaged tracks (a few tracks with wow). I made a CD of In Like Flint, & it's become a favourite. Over to you Varese.


How does it compare to the Varese?

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 3:21 PM   
 By:   Rameau   (Member)

I may be tempted by the Flint scores IF they are mixed better than they were on that dreadful 1990s CD.

The isolated stereo tracks on the Twilight Time Blu-rays sounded pretty good (except for the damaged tracks (a few tracks with wow). I made a CD of In Like Flint, & it's become a favourite. Over to you Varese.


How does it compare to the Varese?


I dunno, I'll have to do a comparison, I haven't listened to that Varese release for years, I was unhappy with it as well.

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 3:24 PM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

Nothing.

big grinbig grinbig grin

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 4:03 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Nothing. I primarily need to fill a few essential OST holes in my collection (digitally or physically), before I can even consider any wishes. Under any circumstance, those wishes would be premiere releases, not expanded releases or the like.

Good thing those premieres you wish for can come from *any* label, Thor! smile I think this just isn't the thread for you, since its entire raison d'être is to consider new editions of titles Varese controls (and no other label can release) due to their prior (usually incomplete, as you prefer) releases of these scores.


With MARSHALLS now in my hands I didn’t think I would want any more expanded Goldsmiths but after reading your post Yavar Love Field, Leviathan and Matinee are now on my radar...

Cool! We learned since the last poll that Leviathan isn't a title Varese controls any perpetuity rights on, but if you're interested in more details on the missing 21+ minutes of music, DeputyRiley did a great complete score breakdown on it: https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=110196&archive=0

As for Matinee, here's a cool unreleased action cue from the score which Roger shared over in an Intrada board thread:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/63xpcoqz1um2rkd/Number%204.mp3?dl=0
(To me it sounds almost like something out of a 70s Goldsmith score like Twilight's Last Gleaming!)

But I long for LOVE FIELD even more than either of these!


Final Conflict with the missing Speaker’s Corner cue.

Robert Townson told me that he controls this title under his Master's Film Music label. Now that he's no longer at Varese, I don't think they have any rights to the score. But I hope that he produces a new edition himself, with this cue and the other few missing cues. It's a masterpiece and we need every note! But Gold Digger, would you be so good as to rank your choices, so that I can honor Tom McGuire's request for a ranked choice vote? (Also, just a reminder to everyone: you can pick up to 10 titles to vote for, though you aren't obligated to and as long as you rank your picks I can still make it work for the ranked choice vote.)


1. Hollow Man
2. Looney Tunes: BiA
3: Mom and Dad Save the World
4: Along Came a Spider
5: Matinee
6: L.A. Confidential
7: Love Field
8: City Hall
9: The Other
10: Malice


Thanks for supplying a full ranked TEN, Spinmeister! Gold star for you. wink

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

The 13th Warrior, Lionheart or Timeline.

I once thought that a complete S*P*Y*S was off the table, but if we can get a complete Take Her She's Mine...

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 4:13 PM   
 By:   WhoDat   (Member)

Great topic to revisit, Yavar. Here's my new top three:

• Medicine Man
• 13th Warrior
• LA Confidential

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

What I really want is more of that Twilight Zone NERVOUS ANGULAR LONGHAIR sound. Any unreleased stuff in the CBS Library?

Not really the subject of this thread since Varese doesn't control any of these, but the answer is YES indeed -- including TWO unreleased (on CD) Twilight Zone scores! You can hear what they sound like in these two Goldsmith Odyssey podcasts (we play every cue from the Blu-ray isolated tracks, which unfortunately were not from tapes so have some occasional FX and dialogue bleed); I think they are both right up your alley:
The Four of Us Are Dying (more jazzy -- Jerry's first TZ score!): http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/751831-episode-9-the-twilight-zone-the-four-of-us-are-dying-the-big-tall-wish-1960
Nightmare as a Child (more modernist): http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/766316-episode-10-the-twilight-zone-nightmare-as-a-child-nervous-man-in-a-four-dollar-room-1960

There's also a bunch of CBS Music Library cues recorded "wild" (not for any specific program) but many of which were tracked into The Twilight Zone and would fit the bill of your desired "nervous angular longhair" style I think. We discuss (and play) all of them which we could salvage from ripped iso scores and transferred library music records, here in this special Goldsmith Odyssey two-parter:
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/797224-episode-12-cbs-music-library-spectacular-part-1
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/812543-episode-13-cbs-music-library-spectacular-part-2

There's also a bunch of other stuff of Goldsmith's in the CBS vaults, including these two jazzy scores which were included (in incomplete form) on the existing Goldsmith Twilight Zone CD as "Jazz Theme #1" and "Jazz Theme #2", but they were in fact original scores written for non-Twilight Zone projects but later tracked into a few Twilight Zones:
http://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/779305-episode-11-man-on-the-beach-1959-the-fair-haired-boy-1958

I guarantee you the CBS vaults have a lot of other things you'd like of Jerry's, either modernist or jazzy. But again to reiterate: no reason any of it would be more likely to come from Varese than any other label, such as Intrada (remember that great A Step Out of Line/The Brotherhood of the Bell CBS two-fer they put out? I imagine that fits your "nervous angular longhair" description?)

I may be tempted by the Flint scores IF they are mixed better than they were on that dreadful 1990s CD.

I feel certain that they could be, and also half of those groovy scores are unreleased on CD! The Twilight Time isolated tracks are definitely an improvement sound-wise IMO, and also feature over twice as much music, even though they too are still incomplete due to maintaining film micro-edits. We need new restored versions of these two on CD, for sure.

The isolated stereo tracks on the Twilight Time Blu-rays sounded pretty good (except for the damaged tracks (a few tracks with wow). I made a CD of In Like Flint, & it's become a favourite. Over to you Varese.

I'd wager someone like Chris Malone might even be able to repair some of that, as he did with Intrada's new release of Take Her, She's Mine.


The 13th Warrior, Lionheart or Timeline.
I once thought that a complete S*P*Y*S was off the table, but if we can get a complete Take Her She's Mine...


Indeed, I would LOVE a complete S*P*Y*S, though I think it's more likely to happen from Intrada as well, since Varese doesn't control it in perpetuity any more than they did The Detective/Von Ryan's Express/Fate Is the Hunter/Shock Treatment, all of which Intrada released new (usually more complete) editions of.

If you read my first post you'll also see that when Robert Townson left Varese last year, he took the rights to Lionheart (and The Final Conflict and The 'Burbs) with him, so a new edition of those would have to come from Master's Film Music, not Varese.

SBD and WhoDat, would you like to rank your three picks so I can tabulate ranked choice voting on this? I guess I can assume they are ranked in the order you listed them, even though un-numbered.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 4:51 PM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)

1) Rudy
2) Rudy
3) Rudy
4) Rudy
5) Rudy
6) Rudy
7) Rudy
8) Rudy
9) The Mephisto Waltz
10) Rudy

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 4:56 PM   
 By:   SBD   (Member)

Okay. My updated list:

1. The 13th Warrior
2. Matinee
3. Timeline

 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 7:28 PM   
 By:   DeputyRiley   (Member)

Thanks for all your hard work, Yavar! Wow.

1. Hollow Man
2. Along Came a Spider
3. 13th Warrior

(and of course Leviathan, somehow...somewhere...from someone...)

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 24, 2020 - 8:45 PM   
 By:   Dylan   (Member)

1. The Other (a masterpiece - this is a top priority IMO)
2. Love Field
3. Matinee
4. Mom and Dad Save the World
5. Medicine Man
6. Our Man Flint/ In Like Flint
7. Rudy
8. Hollow Man
9. Timeline
10. Looney Tunes: Back in Action

... but everything listed is worth expanding/re-releasing (i.e. I would LOVE a remaster of "The Mephisto Waltz," but more "Looney Tunes" edges it out since that CD is missing so much, etc.).

 
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