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 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 3:57 AM   
 By:   laurent   (Member)

Does anyone know of a CD Expanded Soundtrack release for this ? I am amazed that there is not yet a full version of this soundtrack

Could lalaland records do it ? or Intrada ?

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 5:09 AM   
 By:   Amer Zahid   (Member)

I think the plans to reissue this have been vetoed by John Williams himself.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 5:12 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I think the plans to reissue this have been vetoed by John Williams himself.

He's not vetoed a reissue, but an expanded release. AFAIK. And good call! But a reissue should be feasible and recommended for anyone who doesn't own the OST (I've heard it's hard to come by these days).

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 6:19 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I think the plans to reissue this have been vetoed by John Williams himself.

He's not vetoed a reissue, but an expanded release. AFAIK. And good call! But a reissue should be feasible and recommended for anyone who doesn't own the OST (I've heard it's hard to come by these days).


The only release was a re-recorded album, not the OST (original soundtrack). Unless the CD album as missing music from the LP album, I'm guessing "expanded" would mean the unreleased original soundtrack.

Didn't sound like the ost or album was on Mike Matessino's plans to remaster. Eiger is discussed at 75 minutes in.
https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/05/12/mike-matessino-far-and-away-the-river/

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 6:32 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

The only release was a re-recorded album, not the OST (original soundtrack). Unless the CD album as missing music from the LP album, I'm guessing "expanded" would mean the unreleased original soundtrack.

I don't delineate between film tracks and rerecordings. The OST is the original soundtrack album, first released on LP and then subsequently released on CD in the 90s.

The "veto" is something I recently read in a thread over on JWFAN, which again was a reference to a post by Ford Thaxton here on the board:

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20259-the-eiger-sanction/&do=findComment&comment=1721786

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I don't delineate between film tracks and rerecordings.

You should. As fans of either know, they are often quite different.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 6:38 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Sure, but an OST is an OST, the actual physical album that was first released - regardless of the type of tracks involved.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 6:46 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Sure, but an OST is an OST, the actual physical album that was first released - regardless of the type of tracks involved.

I'm not sure "Original soundtrack" means "First release" to soundtrack collectors.

So if you wanted to distinguish what content was on the very first physical release, what simple abbreviation would you use? Some vinyl releases were original recordings, some re-recordings. Or you wouldn't indicate this difference?

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 6:49 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

So if you wanted to distinguish what content was on the very first physical release, what simple abbreviation would you use? Some vinyl releases did contain original soundtrack recordings. Or you would never distinguish them?

I would not distinguish them, as it's not that important to me. I just want the best possible listening experience. I'm not sure there is an abbreviation for this, other than what you can create yourself -- OFT/Original Film Tracks vs. RR/Re-Recording or something??

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 8:36 AM   
 By:   John Smith   (Member)

So if you wanted to distinguish what content was on the very first physical release, what simple abbreviation would you use? Some vinyl releases did contain original soundtrack recordings. Or you would never distinguish them?

I would not distinguish them, as it's not that important to me. I just want the best possible listening experience. I'm not sure there is an abbreviation for this, other than what you can create yourself -- OFT/Original Film Tracks vs. RR/Re-Recording or something??


Sorry to chip in, but Last Child is simply pointing out what seems to be an obvious truth: FSMers – and all collectors for that matter (almost without exception) – make a clear and vital distinction between a “rerecording”, (regardless of how erroneous the original publicity is/was regarding the status of the music on disc), and the authentic “original soundtrack”, i.e., the music which appears on the actual soundtrack on the film.

I appreciate that this distinction may be irrelevant to you as a listener, but when you are conducting a close analysis of the score as used in the film – which you claim to do – then surely you make reference to that very specific music in your exegesis with previously-defined nomenclature. What terminology do you use in your analytical writings?

This distinction is particularly important in the case of the genuine OST of The Eiger Sanction, which is significantly different from Williams’ so-called rerecordings for the album. For example, “Training With George” on the film soundtrack has the main theme played by guitar, whereas the rerecording replaces the guitar with strings.

Furthermore, the rerecording takes this very short piece of music and expands it to twice its original length, fully developing it thematically into the track on the existing album. This applies also to other nominally “rerecorded” tracks that vary appreciably in length and content.

I suspect that Williams would be unhappy having no trace of his new orchestrations on any expanded OST release, as (I assume) he believes they improve the listening experience.

Of course, there could be some other reason for the veto which we know nothing about.

Needless to say, there are many fans out there who would love to hear the original OST tracks (unavailable on line). As much as I enjoy the rerecordings, I do miss the guitar on the "TWG" track (just as I miss the organ on the title track of the From Russia With Love album) and would like to have it immortalised on disc - with or without Williams' blessing...

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 9:31 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Sure, but an OST is an OST, the actual physical album that was first released - regardless of the type of tracks involved.

I would refer to such as the 1975 MCA album program.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 9:33 AM   
 By:   Mike Esssss   (Member)

Didn't sound like the ost or album was on Mike Matessino's plans to remaster. Eiger is discussed at 75 minutes in.
https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/05/12/mike-matessino-far-and-away-the-river/


To be fair, he said he'd like to get it done and though it's not currently in the works it doesn't mean they won't get around to doing it. I took that to mean it's generally on the radar, it's just not a priority. I also assume he would've shut down the conversation about it right then if he knew Williams's position on it as of that moment to still be a hard no.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 9:51 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

I like the MCA LP. That is enough for me.

The film is pretty bad, IMO.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Didn't sound like the ost or album was on Mike Matessino's plans to remaster. Eiger is discussed at 75 minutes in.
https://thelegacyofjohnwilliams.com/2020/05/12/mike-matessino-far-and-away-the-river/


To be fair, he said he'd like to get it done and though it's not currently in the works it doesn't mean they won't get around to doing it. I took that to mean it's generally on the radar, it's just not a priority. I also assume he would've shut down the conversation about it right then if he knew Williams's position on it as of that moment to still be a hard no.


I know Mike doesn't like to say what's in the hopper, but he sounded pretty downbeat. As if this would come after "Daddy-O" on his "to do" list. Maybe he just doesn't like the music itself. And perhaps he doesn't want to speak for Williams regarding a release, so Ford can still be correct about it being vetoed. But I don't understand why Williams would be so against it.

 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 10:36 AM   
 By:   Ed   (Member)

The album version of the soundtrack is excellent and really should be reissued. It's been out of print for decades.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 19, 2020 - 2:58 PM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

The way to go about it is the way things are being done right now, just like other perfect recent releases like MONSIGNOR & THE RIVER.
A cleaned up version of the original album release, for the purists, followed by the actual film score tracks (generally quite different from their album counterparts) and then any bonus/alternate tracks to finish proceedings.
If it spills over onto two discs, so be it, although I do love that the aforementioned releases managed to fit everything onto one.
I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed THE RIVER (but I will anyway) smile
The original LP sounds amazing and the actual score tracks offer fantastic variations and tempos of the LP material, in addition to BRAND NEW MUSIC!!
And the bonus tracks!!! While I love the early, alternate version of The Ancestral Home, the 80s drum machine version of (can't remember track title) is just unreal. I cannot get enough of it.
No true John Williams fan should be without it.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2020 - 4:45 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Sorry to chip in, but Last Child is simply pointing out what seems to be an obvious truth: FSMers – and all collectors for that matter (almost without exception) – make a clear and vital distinction between a “rerecording”, (regardless of how erroneous the original publicity is/was regarding the status of the music on disc), and the authentic “original soundtrack”, i.e., the music which appears on the actual soundtrack on the film.

I'm well aware of the difference, but again:

a) The abbreviation OST has always meant only one thing - the original soundtrack album. It may contain original film tracks, re-recorded tracks or a combination of the two. The word does not make a distinction between them.

b) In terms of soundtrack listening, it makes absolutely no difference to me whether a soundtrack contains film tracks or rerecorded tracks. What matters is only how it comes together as a conceptual album.

appreciate that this distinction may be irrelevant to you as a listener, but when you are conducting a close analysis of the score as used in the film – which you claim to do – then surely you make reference to that very specific music in your exegesis with previously-defined nomenclature. What terminology do you use in your analytical writings?

If I'm analyzing the film score in context, I have no need to talk of any OST. Two different things.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2020 - 8:09 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

a) The abbreviation OST has always meant only one thing - the original soundtrack album. It may contain original film tracks, re-recorded tracks or a combination of the two. The word does not make a distinction between them.

But in a discussion that does distinguish the two types, as this thread began, it's important everyone is on the same page. I'm not sure the "original" in OST means "first release" as you suggest. To me, "original" would refer to the film music. I suppose saying "film version" would suffice, although it doesn't specify if it's the complete music or music as edited for the film.

Can someone else clarify objectively what the nomenclature should be? I'm reminded how "archive quality" (something in best condition to be archived) has the opposite connotation here for "worst quality" because some releases used scratchy acetates in archives.

To amplify on John Smith's earlier points, I recall someone insisting that the vinyl release of Mancini's "Experiment in Terror" was the actual film music. The cover reads "Music from the motion picture score" but the reality is it's a re-recording. One cue is completely different from the film version. When that happens, they aren't the same "soundtrack."
Btw, that film music is on the Twilight Time blu-ray, and really deserves a release.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2020 - 8:47 AM   
 By:   danbeck   (Member)

In fact "Original Motion Picture Soundtrack" does not have a precise meaning.
It can and has been used since ever for albums (with rerecordings) like Jaws and The Fury (or any Mancini album) as the music in those albums were "original" (new) music composed/inspired by the films.
It can be used for new releases of the original soundtrack recording (even if an album has been previously released) and it would be also (and maybe even more) "correct" - as in this case original music taken from the actual soundtrack is being released.

 
 Posted:   Jun 20, 2020 - 8:54 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

So you're saying there are no concrete simplifications and we must explain our meaning every time. Can we AGREE on that, rather than claim our own interpretation of "original" or "OST" is the sole, correct meaning?

 
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