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 Posted:   Jun 26, 2020 - 8:20 AM   
 By:   steffromuk   (Member)

The most sensible post in this totally unnecessary thread and even more so in the week of the 5th anniversary of his passing.

I disagree on "totally unnecessary". This post made me discover a new classical piece I had never heard of.

 Posted:   Jun 26, 2020 - 8:39 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

One can obsess endlessly over cribbing and the Romantic notion of the independent "author", free of influence. In other words using 'originality' as the be-all, end-all aspect of music creation. But in the process, you'll rob yourself not only of the great musical qualities of Horner's work -- as a master of orchestration, sweeping melodies and thrilling orchestral riffs -- but also his own, unique trademarks (be it danger motifs or crashing pianos). That's not a life I want to lead.

 Posted:   Jun 26, 2020 - 10:17 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

But if you want to see five lights, knock yourself out, son. big grin

I don't have any money down on this fracas, but I do have to say AC's reference here was top notch.
big grin

 Posted:   Jun 26, 2020 - 1:46 PM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

It was quite a good one, Oct.
Humour in Failure smile

 Posted:   Jun 27, 2020 - 12:34 AM   
 By:   mark_so   (Member)

Or maybe, as Nicholas Meyer onces quoted him as saying during the writing of the score for Star Trek II: "I'm young, I haven't outgrown my influences yet."

i've come to see this as a rather wry response, a way of getting around something so as not to waste time on it. fact is i used to take a very negative view of the borrowing, or quoting, or stealing - whatever you wanna call it. finally i came to realize that it was just part of his aesthetic, or way of working if you like, take it or leave it. and the surprising thing was once i got past making a big deal out of it, the music got more interesting, not less. it also helps to have had some experience with other fields where the concern for authorship/intellectual property is understood as a very narrow matter of legal arcana indeed. consider all the polystylist music composed during the last century, especially composers like shostakovich, schnittke, berio, ligeti, gorecki, and on and on and on -- not to mention the bulk of modernist poetry. if we can fairly easily understand a poem to mostly be something that happens in language, and less importantly, the output of a particular hand holding a pencil, then surely something analogous applies in music. horner himself was as often brutally honest as he was evasive on the topic, but his remarks were revealing on either side. his paranoia about "copyright department" and the peculiar status of the studio as the "author" of the music, himself being just a "hired pencil," tells you a lot. so did the chutzpa of his statement in FSM about there being only so many combinations of notes, mathematically. in other words, there's a consistent attitude at play, a way of keeping an annoying controversy from cropping up and getting in the way, and more importantly, to protect a deliberate set of aesthetic work choices that for better or worse constituted his creative voice. i'll end with a quote from the great american poet and fellow-collector marianne moore, who said in 1969, well into her 80s: "in anything I have written, there have been lines in which the chief interest is borrowed, and I have not yet been able to outgrow this hybrid method of composition."

 Posted:   Jun 27, 2020 - 9:09 AM   
 By:   leagolfer   (Member)

This AAT is new to me so I will check the music & what pieces Horner used, but seriously I don't get digging up holes on JH, He used other guys materials that happens there is a truck-load of guys who've tried that very-trick or had a composer on board his project but hasn't credited that invisible-man what so ever is that cool what happened in the G/A THE S/A it still happens now.

I'm not a JH fan, but I was sad how he left so young, I don't personally care what he took or that his earlier scores could be a little towards alike that once maybe twice triggered some thoughts of his skill-set but Horner did become frightfully better. His commanding of orchestrations although not as crest as Williams or Goldsmith but his works are still top-draw.

Yeah, he's gone for sometime now, I would think praise of each decade instead of loitering negatives at his overall potential.

 Posted:   Jun 29, 2020 - 5:46 PM   
 By:   Adventures of Jarre Jarre   (Member)

I applaud Horner for his judicious use of inspiration. He could've used Prokofiev's "Battle on the Ice" in Casper, but he didn't. That's integrity, people.

All that's left of originality is atonality, and I'm pretty sure the John Cage estate has its hand in that cookie jar.

  • The funny thing is that this happens all throughout musical history. Does it happen a lot with Horner? Yes. Does it detract from me enjoying his music? Not one bit.

  • The most sensible post in this totally unnecessary thread and even more so in the week of the 5th anniversary of his passing.

    At least now we know there's a five year span on the phrase "too soon". I hope critics brought the cheese, because 2021 is going to be a whinefest. ("Those are people who died, died...")

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