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 Posted:   Aug 1, 2020 - 1:58 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

I find that a lot of the time the 5.1 tracks on blu-rays of films originally in Six Track Dolby are just 4.1 anyway. But hey! Since its using both speakers might as well call it the other thing.

FTR the current Star Trek blu-rays were all redone in DTS 7.1 so no original mixes anyway.

 
 Posted:   Aug 1, 2020 - 2:30 PM   
 By:   John Schuermann   (Member)

ATMOS is excellent for movies on bluray if you have a home theater. I got a living room.

Same here. But, at the end of the day, I love Shout Factory and Criterion for using the original audio mixes. If a movie had a 4.1 or 7.1 mix, cool. If it was mono or stereo, that's A-OK with me too. More channels =/= better. I wish all new releases had the original mixes as an option. (I'm looking at you, Terminator!)


AGREED! Not all re-mixes are superior by default.

 
 Posted:   Aug 1, 2020 - 6:28 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

FWIW Sony Records doesn't even support BD-Audio anyway (which is funny since its THEIR format).

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 5:15 AM   
 By:   TerraEpon   (Member)

FWIW Sony Records doesn't even support BD-Audio anyway (which is funny since its THEIR format).

BR-Audio isn't really a 'format' per se, it's more using the existing BR standard in a different way.

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 9:59 AM   
 By:   BornOfAJackal   (Member)

Mike Matessino: Bruce was referencing Dolby Atmos Music here. He used a piece of Star Trek TMP as a demo for the format. This has nothing whatsoever to do with the audio for the movie itself.

Though surely the upcoming 4K release of a reconstituted Director's Edition will have a Dolby Atmos remix, right?

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 10:18 AM   
 By:   John Schuermann   (Member)

I spent a few hours yesterday listening to the Atmos Music mixes on Tidal - impressive! There's quite a bit of variety - jazz, classical, pop, rock, hip-hop - so perhaps Mr. Botnick has remixed TMP for music only release as well. If you have the opportunity, I strongly suggest checking out the Atmos playlists on Tidal and Amazon Music:

https://tidal.com/partners/dolbyatmos

https://music.amazon.com/playlists/B08BRZW1QR

Some people dismiss this as a gimmick, but it's not. You can hear much more musical detail in many of these remixes, provided, of course, you have the proper gear to play it back.

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 1:26 PM   
 By:   Ed   (Member)

I'm sorry to hear that once again STTMP is on the backburner. COVID issues aside there doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the film at Paramount. I guess 1080 will have to be "good enough."

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 3:31 PM   
 By:   John Schuermann   (Member)

I'm sorry to hear that once again STTMP is on the backburner. COVID issues aside there doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the film at Paramount. I guess 1080 will have to be "good enough."

I don't have definitive insider info, but I think we'll see all the original cast ST films restored before long.

And I still think it's likely Botnick is working on a TMP Atmos mix as a side benefit of a TMP restoration.

 
 Posted:   Aug 2, 2020 - 11:06 PM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

I'm sorry to hear that once again STTMP is on the backburner. COVID issues aside there doesn't seem to be a lot of love for the film at Paramount. I guess 1080 will have to be "good enough."

I don't have definitive insider info, but I think we'll see all the original cast ST films restored before long.

And I still think it's likely Botnick is working on a TMP Atmos mix as a side benefit of a TMP restoration.


Bruce used the data from our soundtrack project in 2012 to create an Atmos Music demo piece for Dolby.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 1:00 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Bruce simply used the data from our soundtrack project in 2012 to create an Atmos Music demo piece for Dolby. That's it.

Wouldn't that mean re-threading and breaking up the original source units into separate threads, Mike? A step up from the many years of straight-line handling - maybe that's all it takes for a breakout? Yeah, I know, the pandemic doesn't help.

 
 Posted:   Aug 3, 2020 - 8:20 PM   
 By:   LordDalek   (Member)

Bruce simply used the data from our soundtrack project in 2012 to create an Atmos Music demo piece for Dolby. That's it.

Wouldn't that mean re-threading and breaking up the original source units into separate threads, Mike? A step up from the many years of straight-line handling - maybe that's all it takes for a breakout? Yeah, I know, the pandemic doesn't help.


The LaLaLand cd was mixed down from a digital transfer of the original 16-track session tapes. Any Atmos mix would just be a 7.1.2 mixdown of the same multitrack transfer.

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2020 - 4:58 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Mixdown to what LD? All you need are 3 separately coherent channels to 'unlayer' what goes into a traditional stereo L/R dual speaker system to wedge in a 3rd auditory boundary to introduce slightly increased depth perception? If you are saying this is impossible then I suppose the source would need to be re-processed all over again with all the attendant headaches that would result in determining just how to array the orchestra to maximum effect from those 16 tracks. In any case, wouldn't those tracks have been digitised as separate data sources/streams anyway, given that part of the process is to preserve everything considering the relatively low expense/costs of digital as opposed to analog?

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2020 - 8:59 AM   
 By:   OneBuckFilms   (Member)

One element to consider that might require a remix from the 16 track (actually 15 tracks given that one track is a constant tone to keep the tape speed correct) would be the fact that there is dialogue and sound effects in the overall mix.

If a center channel is used primarily for dialog, it means a LCR style mix would need to be altered, since combining too much musically into the center channel would not be pleasant to hear in viewing the film, though for sequences with music only, that center channel is a good place for percussion.

Another example of the difference between a film mix requirement compared to what would work well on a CD remaster would also be Jaws, where the dreaded shark theme is played on one instrument that would be most effective on the center speaker for the remastering on CD, compared to moving it to the side in a surround mix so that dialog and immediate sound effects and foley can take center stage when needed.

Giving the 16 track master a mixdown for Atmos would also allow for a good separation and assignment of instruments to take advantage of the multiple channels and make the overall mix more immersive that simply applying some reverb from a stereo or LCR mix into the back speakers.

Once can also selectively take the low part of some percussion sounds into the subwoofer to allow the music greater impact.

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2020 - 9:20 AM   
 By:   John Schuermann   (Member)

Of course Mike Matessino has the correct inside info here, also.backed up by Bill Hunt on The Digital Bits yesterday. Here's the latest on Botnick's remix as well as any ST-TMP restoration:

https://thedigitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/080320-1500

From Bill's article:

"Finally today, we have an update on a story we posted a couple weeks ago: You may recall that Bruce Botnick, the original score mixer for Robert Wise’s Star Trek: The Motion Picture, mentioned in a YouTube interview that he was remixing the score for Dolby Atmos. Well, we’ve now confirmed with Paramount—and Director’s Edition restoration supervisor Mike Matessino has confirmed it as well—that Botnick was talking about a music demo on the format only. Paramount wasn’t even aware of the project until they read about it on The Bits. And multiple sources tell me that the 4K film restoration project on the title is currently at on hold at the studio. The pandemic has made all of the Hollywood studios more risk-adverse in terms of spending money right now, so essentially Paramount has hit the pause button on the project. We’ll keep our eyes open on this and update you as we hear more. Actually, let me rephrase that: We know a good deal more than we can post right now, but suffice it to say that when things begin to move forward again (and we can talk about it), we’ll let you know here."

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2020 - 9:48 AM   
 By:   Ed   (Member)

I can understand the difficulties that COVID is creating for studios on the production side, but STTMP and similar projects are a low-cost way of generating revenue when the theaters are going to be closed for the foreseeable future. Home video and streaming and tv are the sole moneymakers right now. Paramount should be throwing its weight behind its catalogue. My opinion for what little it's worth.

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2020 - 11:46 AM   
 By:   Mike Matessino   (Member)

Bill Hunt's article is a bit inaccurate, and I've been in touch with him about it. Discussions about the 4K project have been continuing all along and we are optimistic. The pandemic has affected this as with everything else, but it's only because of budgets being frozen and facility access being handicapped. The Atmos Music demo is a separate thing but in no way reflects anything that is or isn't happening with the movie.

 
 Posted:   Aug 4, 2020 - 12:39 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Thanks for the clarification and ray of hope, Mike!

Yavar

 
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