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Posted: |
Jul 14, 2020 - 4:46 PM
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By: |
Jim Doherty
(Member)
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I heard a lot of praise about this new re-master. It's got its good points. The clarity of the image is phenomenal, the color rich and vibrant, but the sound? The sound was much clearer and brighter on the 2005 DVD remastering. Also, that DVD used the original version of the main title as heard in the film. The main title on the Blu-ray is missing a brass chord overlay as the the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS changes from red to green. At that same point it is also missing the beginning of the percussion track. After a rather noticeable edit, the percussion track eventually comes in, but is WAY out of sync with the orchestra. (if you don't believe me, compare it to the two DVD releases.)
In one of the bonus features, someone mentions that they wanted to get this restoration right, as this is the way people would see the film from now on. Oh, I hope not!
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Posted: |
Jul 14, 2020 - 5:01 PM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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I heard a lot of praise about this new re-master. It's got its good points. The clarity of the image is phenomenal, the color rich and vibrant, but the sound? The sound was much clearer and brighter on the 2005 DVD remastering. Also, that DVD used the original version of the main title as heard in the film. The main title on the Blu-ray is missing a brass chord overlay as the the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS changes from red to green. At that same point it is also missing the beginning of the percussion track. After a rather noticeable edit, the percussion track eventually comes in, but is WAY out of sync with the orchestra. (if you don't believe me, compare it to the two DVD releases.)
Good ear, Jim. That seems to be the same as the Main Title on the Intrada cd (which also has the title without any percussion, and the movie version with narration).
Since the restoration went back to the original 3-strip film, they might have used a more "original" audio track. I believe they said they only had a mono mixdown, so that would imply the percussion was added later. Or there were multiple mixdowns. I don't know if it counts as an error, or just a difference.
However, a video error was made depicting Mars as blue, but it was corrected specifically for the Criterion blu-ray.
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Posted: |
Jul 14, 2020 - 5:57 PM
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By: |
Jim Doherty
(Member)
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I heard a lot of praise about this new re-master. It's got its good points. The clarity of the image is phenomenal, the color rich and vibrant, but the sound? The sound was much clearer and brighter on the 2005 DVD remastering. Also, that DVD used the original version of the main title as heard in the film. The main title on the Blu-ray is missing a brass chord overlay as the the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS changes from red to green. At that same point it is also missing the beginning of the percussion track. After a rather noticeable edit, the percussion track eventually comes in, but is WAY out of sync with the orchestra. (if you don't believe me, compare it to the two DVD releases.)
Good ear, Jim. That's seems to be the same as the Main Title on the Intrada cd.
Since the restoration went back to the original 3-strip film, they might have used a more "original" audio track. I believe they said they only had a mono mixdown, so that would imply the percussion was added later. Or there were multiple mixdowns. A music/effect track also exists (possibly for foreign language dubbing).
Well, the mono mix-down they had would have had would have been the same composite mono Music/ Effects/Dialogue track used and heard in the film itself. It is apparent Criterion used something else, or the main titles would have sounded exactly the same as we always heard it.
In some previous WAR OF THE WORLDS thread (when the Intrada CD was first released), it was admitted that the sync in the percussion track on the Intrada CD was incorrect. I am sorry this incorrect version was apparently used for the Blu-ray.
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Posted: |
Jul 14, 2020 - 6:27 PM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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I heard a lot of praise about this new re-master. It's got its good points. The clarity of the image is phenomenal, the color rich and vibrant, but the sound? The sound was much clearer and brighter on the 2005 DVD remastering. Also, that DVD used the original version of the main title as heard in the film. The main title on the Blu-ray is missing a brass chord overlay as the the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS changes from red to green. At that same point it is also missing the beginning of the percussion track. After a rather noticeable edit, the percussion track eventually comes in, but is WAY out of sync with the orchestra. (if you don't believe me, compare it to the two DVD releases.)
Good ear, Jim. That's seems to be the same as the Main Title on the Intrada cd.
Since the restoration went back to the original 3-strip film, they might have used a more "original" audio track. I believe they said they only had a mono mixdown, so that would imply the percussion was added later. Or there were multiple mixdowns. A music/effect track also exists (possibly for foreign language dubbing).
Well, the mono mix-down they had would have had would have been the same composite mono Music/ Effects/Dialogue track used and heard in the film itself. It is apparent Criterion used something else, or the main titles would have sounded exactly the same as we always heard it.
In some previous WAR OF THE WORLDS thread (when the Intrada CD was first released), it was admitted that the sync in the percussion track on the Intrada CD was incorrect. I am sorry this incorrect version was apparently used for the Blu-ray.
I imagine Intrada used whatever they were given, so perhaps there is no final "film" version cue anywhere. Rather, the cue or music parts were added to the mixdown later, creating a 2nd mixdown, and the restoration team used the earlier one by mistake.
The restoration has been around for a few years on iTunes, so I'd be surprised if noone has mentioned the music gaffe to Paramount. Then again, they didn't address the blue color of Mars until Criterion announced their release. Maybe Criterion could have gotten the music corrected, too.
On a slight tangent, there is a music/effects track, probably used for foreign language dubbing. That has the final main title.
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Posted: |
Jul 14, 2020 - 7:30 PM
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By: |
Jim Doherty
(Member)
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I really don't want to argue, but the M&E track, which is featured on the laserdisc of the film has the same correct mix of the main title as heard in the 1953 release of the film, as it was heard on every release of the film, TV prints, VHS, 1999 DVD, 2005 DVD, etc., for many decades UNTIL the out -of- sync mix appeared on the Intrada CD release, and now the Criterion Blu-ray.
I don't have the wherewithal to dig up the original written score somewhere in some university where Stevens' scores might be housed, but I'll make a bet I'm right in my conclusions that the percussion track in the Main Title on the Blu-ray (as well as the Intrada CD) is synchronized incorrectly.
Please, just listen to the film in one of its older transfers, and you will hear the way the percussion track was supposed to fit in. On the Intrada CD and the Blu-ray, it is totally at odds with the orchestra.
My best to you.
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Frankly, and I know this will not be popular, I wasn't even crazy about the visual aspects. It's fine, it's clean, but a little flat-looking compared to dye transfer prints.
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The main title on the Blu-ray is missing a brass chord overlay as the the title THE WAR OF THE WORLDS changes from red to green. At that same point it is also missing the beginning of the percussion track. After a rather noticeable edit, the percussion track eventually comes in, but is WAY out of sync with the orchestra. (if you don't believe me, compare it to the two DVD releases.)
In one of the bonus features, someone mentions that they wanted to get this restoration right, as this is the way people would see the film from now on. Oh, I hope not!
Did you notice if it Is the same for the original mono mix on the blu, or just the new 5.1.
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Can you still see the strings?
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Can you still see the strings?
That was an after-effect of Eastman Kodak and black & white prints made later for television broadcasts. In 1953, you didn't see strings unless you knew where to look, because they planned well on how the imperfect alignment of the three Technicolor strips would hide the wires, which were also painted to match the sky backdrops.
So mostly no, you can't, and that was both intended and achieved in '53. It's just we poor sods who saw it on TV or home video who have that cemented in as original.
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Can you still see the strings?
That was an after-effect of Eastman Kodak and black & white prints made later for television broadcasts. In 1953, you didn't see strings unless you knew where to look, because they planned well on how the imperfect alignment of the three Technicolor strips would hide the wires, which were also painted to match the sky backdrops.
This I knew, but they were pretty prominent on the last DVD I bought so I was hoping they'd correct it.
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Posted: |
Jul 15, 2020 - 6:29 AM
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By: |
Last Child
(Member)
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I really don't want to argue, but the M&E track, which is featured on the laserdisc of the film has the the correct mix of the main title as heard in the 1953 release of the film, as it was heard on every release of the film, TV prints, VHS, DVD, etc., for many decades UNTIL the incorrectly mixed Intrada CD release, and now the Criterion Blu-ray, which I fear was grabbed from the Intrada mix.
I don't have the wherewithal to dig up the original written score somewhere in some university where Stevens' scores might be housed, but I'll make a bet I'm right in my conclusions that the Main Title in the Blu-ray (as well as the Intrada CD) is synchronized incorrectly.
Jim, I just wrote the M&E has the finished film version; not sure why you went on about it like I did NOT say it.
Intrada did not have all the separate elements to make the final Main Title.
I believe the audio restoration guy (Ben Burtt) said they only had the mono mixdown to work with, and that the blu-ray mono is the cleaned-up "original." That implies no music was substituted into it. Since it has a different Main Title from previous video releases, one can deduce that two mono mixdowns must exist.
If any music was going to be subbed in (for added effect), it would have been in Burtt's 5.1 re-creation track, but it has the same Main Title as the blu-ray mono.
Here's the original announcement thread where Chris Malone mentions they started the cd with the wrong main title. Lukas Kendall explains they did not have all the elements to make the film version. They had to use the actual movie audio for a Main Title bonus track at the end.
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=90236
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Posted: |
Jul 17, 2020 - 8:20 PM
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By: |
Jim Doherty
(Member)
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I really don't want to argue, but the M&E track, which is featured on the laserdisc of the film has the the correct mix of the main title as heard in the 1953 release of the film, as it was heard on every release of the film, TV prints, VHS, DVD, etc., for many decades UNTIL the incorrectly mixed Intrada CD release, and now the Criterion Blu-ray, which I fear was grabbed from the Intrada mix.
I don't have the wherewithal to dig up the original written score somewhere in some university where Stevens' scores might be housed, but I'll make a bet I'm right in my conclusions that the Main Title in the Blu-ray (as well as the Intrada CD) is synchronized incorrectly.
Jim, I just wrote the M&E has the finished film version; not sure why you went on about it like I did NOT say it.
Intrada did not have all the separate elements to make the final Main Title.
I believe the audio restoration guy (Ben Burtt) said they only had the mono mixdown to work with, and that the blu-ray mono is the cleaned-up "original." That implies no music was substituted into it. Since it has a different Main Title from previous video releases, one can deduce that two mono mixdowns must exist.
If any music was going to be subbed in (for added effect), it would have been in Burtt's 5.1 re-creation track, but it has the same Main Title as the blu-ray mono.
LAST CHILD: Forgive me, I missed that last line in your previous post regarding the M&E track.
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