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 Posted:   Jul 30, 2020 - 4:52 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

Gotcha. Although he had a poor self-image, I don't see him as embittered. Not fulfilled in life even as a celebrated director, yes. Without question. Alfredo's parting gift, as such, is a reminder that he succeeded in his life's ambition in that one area. The expression in his face had to have expressed more than simple nostalgia, in this regard. He had taken for granted the joy he had brought to others. He had passed on the gift given him as a youngster. It is an upbeat conclusion.

Indeed, I agree with you.

Looking back now, I see that his reunion with Elena in old age and discovering that was Alfredo who sabotage their romance made him reavaluate his life and start to let go of the past. I think when he sees the kisses montage he also remember all the joy and forgive Alfredo for messing with his life.

Good insights, friend!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2020 - 5:19 PM   
 By:   amatalqa   (Member)

This is a great discussion and all points are valid. There’s a great theme in Pablo Coehlo’s book The Alchemist which essentially addresses what Alfredo did in the expanded cut. In the book, a wise man tells the shepherd boy about embarking on his journey: if you don’t go for your destiny, your greater calling, your “journey” and stay behind for the girl, you may get married and be in love and the first year you won’t think twice about your calling. The second year you will also be happy, but you’ll wonder a little, what if... and the third year, you will start to feel a sense of regret, why didn’t you pursue the itch that was calling deep in your soul. And the fourth and fifth years... you will start to harbor resentment for not pursuing your life’s greater calling.

Essentially, that is why the longer cut has more depth. It is on the one hand slower and less satisfying because it loses momentum in the final act, but at the same time, it digs deeper and fulfills the parable in a more complete way.

As for Toto’s “bitterness” as an adult... I don’t think it’s bitter at all, but rather it is the unfulfilled love, which is exactly what made him the respected filmmaker/artist he became in Rome. Because you can’t have both. To pursue the passion, there is a driving force that comes from loss. That’s the poetry in the longer cut. While it’s less enjoyable as a viewing experience, the weight it leaves you with is more significant afterwards.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2020 - 5:27 PM   
 By:   Totoro   (Member)

Yes, I agree.

Human beings are never really happy, I supose...

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2020 - 7:37 PM   
 By:   Zoragoth   (Member)

Looking back now, I see that his reunion with Elena in old age and discovering that was Alfredo who sabotage their romance made him reavaluate his life and start to let go of the past. I think when he sees the kisses montage he also remember all the joy and forgive Alfredo for messing with his life.

Old age - that cracked me up. Elena referred to herself as old but, despite his grey hair, they still looked pretty frisky to me!

I just coincidentally watched the longer version last week, not having seen the theatrical one in many years. I'll have to look at the shorter one at some point, but I do think the added background subplot contributed enormous resonance, not to mention a layer of complexity, to that final emotional scene in the screening room.

 
 Posted:   Jul 30, 2020 - 7:39 PM   
 By:   Zoragoth   (Member)

Yes, I agree.

Human beings are never really happy, I supose...


Or should we say, they are never content, or shouldn't be ... ?

In the words of Frederick Bonfils, founder of the Denver Post, "There's no hope for the satisfied man."

Or woman, needless to say.

 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2020 - 2:54 AM   
 By:   Thomas   (Member)

I've only ever seen the extended version, that's what I have on DVD. I'm so used to it now I would find it very strange watching any other version. Not that I ever have much chance of that as it's never on TV in the UK/Ireland, and it's not on Netflix or Sky Movies from what I can tell.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2020 - 4:50 AM   
 By:   brofax   (Member)

Thomas, if you're interested in a comparison the short version is available to rent on youtube for €3 (SD) or €4 (HD)

For extra enjoyment you could cast it to your 75" smile

I'd post the link but it has about 2,000 characters smile

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2020 - 4:58 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

A Man or Woman's Destiny should be of no one's choosing but their own.
I don't want no Alfredo deciding what's best for me!
Piffle!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 31, 2020 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

KeV m'lad, ever parented, taught, coached, MENTORED a kid and watched him hit a high note down the road? smile

The magnificent ending of CP had something of an antecedent, of sorts, in the classic Sullivan's Travels. The "director" in that one finally comes to peace with his life's calling, too, and the closing shots are unforgettable. Another magnificent ending, all right, the kind that sticks with you.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 11, 2020 - 4:34 PM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

But I will take the challenge and re-see both to confirm all this.

OK--have completed part of assignment by watching the entire 171min version and come here having everything, EVERYTHING stated earlier confirmed and solidified. This is something personally gratifying as I have not seen the picture a zillion times and went by best recollections a fortnight ago.

It is better than the 155min version but that is not saying much IMHO. Perhaps will add more after seeing preferred edited cut.

I just coincidentally watched the longer version last week, not having seen the theatrical one in many years. I'll have to look at the shorter one at some point, but I do think the added background subplot contributed enormous resonance, not to mention a layer of complexity, to that final emotional scene in the screening room.

To an extent. Everything was fine until the big reveal. Yes, Salvatore was shocked and felt burned and betrayed. But his emotional turnabout was rather short-lived. Elena herself told him that Alfredo had done the right thing even if he couldn't see it now, blinded as he was emotionally. That blindness along with any remaining bitterness evaporated back in Rome in the screening room. His love for Alfredo was restored and on track again after a brief derailment.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 12, 2020 - 12:30 AM   
 By:   keky   (Member)

The original theatrical version, absolutely. When I first saw the extended cut, even though I liked it, I was still disappointed. I didn't like the ending when he meets the now adult Elena. One of the beauties of the original was its theme of love unfulfilled. That scene was very disappointing for me. I didn't like the scene with the hooker in the cinema either because it compeletely ruined the theme of innocent first love - as it was in the original theatrical version. And overall the extended cut was too long.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 12, 2020 - 10:30 AM   
 By:   bookbutter   (Member)


And if memory serves, the celebrated ending was not diminished in the longer version in the sense that Toto ends up embittered and unfulfilled by the choice to marry filmmaking. On the contrary, for all his frustrations in the area of love and romance, what he saw affirmed his life's course. You see that in his face.

But I will take the challenge and re-see both to confirm all this.


Yes, the kisses made Toto happy and nostalgic and this is evident, but in a whole the Director's Cut makes it clear that his lost love made him an unhappy and bitter man, incapable of any true connections on an emotional level.

I lived something very similar in my life (even meeting her again in old ages) and, yes, when one true love is broken you kinda feel numbed for the rest of your life in this department. The movie captures this perfectly in the original version and it is very bitter.


Could not agree more...the US version to me, is a much more realistic version of real life. Sometimes people disappear and you never know what happened to them. And sometimes...that is OK.

 
 
 Posted:   Aug 16, 2020 - 11:31 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Challenge completed, re-watched 124min version last night. No need to go for the trifecta with the 155min job. Can never tire of watching the thing. The funeral scene...the faces of his youth...such heart.

 
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