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 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 5:37 AM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

I can't believe there is so much negativity against this score or its release. Two main thoughts:

1. Electronics were integral to Goldsmith's pallette for decades. Some of them worked better than others, but to object in principal to their inclusion is a bit mad at this point. Personally I think they add a very effective nervous quality to this score - like a scratching itch of violence. I've loved this score since I first saw the movie.

2. It's bland? No it's not. It operates mostly under dialogue and only erupts when it needs to.

3. The CD is a miracle. I understood this score was lost. To have it now released, complete and with pristine sound is more than I ever could have dreamed. Intrada ROCKS!

4. There is no such thing as too many Goldsmith releases. Wishing for more is not entitlement, it's simply a desire to absorb more and more of the man's output.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 5:46 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

If the Goldsmith titles sell well, I figure that gives the likes of Intrada the wiggle room to offer some obscure efforts by the likes of Rosenthal, Broughton, Holdridge et al, that maybe don't shift as many units, but are given a glimmer of a chance anyway.
Outside of Williams, Horner, Goldsmith, Barry (and Zimmer, but there isn't that much traction on his older stuff), are there any other BIG sellers in the score profit stakes? Is it more aligned to the film the score is from?

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 8:35 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

I can't believe there is so much negativity against this score or its release.

I can't believe that either, because it's not accurate. There are exactly two members who criticized this score. Basil apparently likes it except for the synth, and soniclester called it lame.

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   Jeff Bond   (Member)

Why even respond to these people? I do think it's pretty funny someone paid for this with ample opportunity to listen to the samples and THEN decided they needed to declare it to be the most worthless release ever. Pretty discerning ears there! smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 9:38 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

My copy arrived today and I am excited as hell to have another Jerry Goldsmith score -- from the 1970s no less -- that I have never heard (and I have not seen the movie either, though interestingly I knew about it long before I even knew who Jerry Goldsmith was).

As far as synthesizers are concerned, they are just like any other instrument to me. People might as well complain that there are bassoons or oboes in a score or tambourines or cowbells in a score. (Can there ever be enough cowbell??)

I have listened to a few samples, but frankly, I needed no convincing to buy this release at all.

It's 1970s, and it's Goldsmith, so how bad can it be? Even the worst by Goldsmith of that time was still excellent.

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

As far as synthesizers are concerned, they are just like any other instrument to me.

In the samples it has a certain, to put it delicately, farting quality to it. The end of 1st sample especially. And no, I don't have my head up my butt.

http://store.intrada.com/s.nl/it.A/id.12192/.f

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 11:35 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Re: synth farts... there are other more beloved Goldsmith scores where the synths sound much more farty than here, IMO (I'm lookin' at you, Rambo: First Blood Part II). I used to long for a version of that with the synths removed in the bonus tracks section, as silly as that might sound to some. But I got over it and have come to accept them in that otherwise-perfect score. Again, to me the synths in The Don Is Dead overall sound more like some kind of electric jew's harp (an acoustic instrument Jerry had previously used in westerns)...maybe it's the lack of pitch (most of the time) but that's what it sounds like to me.


It's 1970s, and it's Goldsmith, so how bad can it be? Even the worst by Goldsmith of that time was still excellent.

Eh....two years before The Don Is Dead:


I know some people like it but I'm far from warming up to it. "Excellent" seems a stretch.


If the Goldsmith titles sell well, I figure that gives the likes of Intrada the wiggle room to offer some obscure efforts by the likes of Rosenthal, Broughton, Holdridge et al, that maybe don't shift as many units, but are given a glimmer of a chance anyway.
Outside of Williams, Horner, Goldsmith, Barry (and Zimmer, but there isn't that much traction on his older stuff), are there any other BIG sellers in the score profit stakes? Is it more aligned to the film the score is from?


I think outside of the most popular composers, yes, it matters more what film (or at the very least, genre) it is. Like how Alfred Newman's The Robe continues to sell great even when Alfred Newman titles in general apparently sadly don't. As to your list of reliable sellers, I might suggest the addition of Elfman? But even then, I guess it's likely to depend on the score. I suspect scores from the first decade of his film music career likely have more consistent sales potential. I think probably also Basil Poledouris...at least judging from the fact that BSX put out an impressive FOUR volumes (to date) of his smaller scale more obscure works. I doubt that would have happened if they weren't selling. But he had a much shorter career than Williams, Goldsmith, Barry, Elfman, or even Horner.


So actually it's Goldsmith fans who have a sense of entitlement, with threads like "Which Goldsmith title should be released/expanded next." You'd probably be singing soniclester's tune if the labels kept releasing Leonard Rosenman's Beneath the Planet of the Apes instead.

Nice try, but no. I don't believe I have ever publicly shamed or berated a record label for choosing to release something. I have made enthusiastic suggestions at times, but never demands.

You're clearly directing that thread complaint at me, but my actual original thread title was "What Goldsmith scores are left to expand?" (I also later did similarly titled ones for Poledouris, Rozsa, and Bernstein) -- informative, not entitled. I'm upfront about what scores are less realistic because elements are lost, licensing may be complicated, or they may just be too obscure for a label to pursue (even for Goldsmith). It's intended to be helpful for fellow fans, and many expressed that it was indeed so.

Perhaps you are instead referring to the polls I conducted later, asking what titles others wanted most? I don't see how simply expressing one's hopes/desires (and encouraging others to do so) qualifies as "entitled". And there was not a hint of an angry or demanding tone; if anything the labels might consider it helpful to know which Goldsmith scores have greater sales potential than others. Again, I have never shamed or berated a label for NOT releasing a Goldsmith score. Nor have I, as you seem to suggest, ever shamed or berated a label for releasing a title I didn't care for. Sharing one's personal opinion about a score isn't the same as acting upset that label would dare to insult us all by releasing it. I *certainly* wouldn't do that if Rosenman's Beneath the Planet of the Apes kept getting released by the labels, because I'm sure if that were to happen it would be because it was a successful seller of them. Again, I trust that the labels know better than any of us mere fans, about what sells well -- because they have personal experience selling film music albums; it is their very livelihood!

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 12:13 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)


As far as synthesizers are concerned, they are just like any other instrument to me. People might as well complain that there are bassoons or oboes in a score or tambourines or cowbells in a score.





Did you know: "An oboe uses very little air. When the oboe is played, only a little air leaves the lungs and a lot stays in the lungs. This leads to a build up of CO2 which can cause hyperventilation, giddiness and fainting."
I just stumbled on that info online. Fascinating. No such concerns with a synth oboe.

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 12:27 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Nice try, but no. I don't believe I have ever publicly shamed or berated a record label for choosing to release something. I have made enthusiastic suggestions at times, but never demands.

You're clearly directing that thread complaint at me....


I quoted you because I think your point about "entitlement" is possibly what sonicelester meant about Goldie fans. Obviously people aren't buying his titles just because the label releases him. I thought his complaint might be about both labels and buyers. We just had the expanded "Morituri" recently, so maybe this is too much Goldie too soon in his mind.
I never said you berated a label - I suggested you might understand soniclester's POV if the labels focused on something you don't like. There's no mystery and nothing to write so much in response.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   Moonlit   (Member)



There's only one true Don. cool

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2020 - 6:41 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

DON BARNEY FIFA



A Don Knotts "Don" movie would of course be scored by Vittorio Mizzarelli.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2020 - 10:46 AM   
 By:   W. David Lichty [Lorien]   (Member)

...let's not forget James Horner's momentous heart attack music from BRAINSTORM.
That would be my Number One.


100% with you!
That's right guys! That one if I remember correctly was rather bombastic.

For a "kinder, gentler" scoring of a heart attack, how bout John Williams' music for Pa Kent's (Glenn Ford) final moments in SUPERMAN THE MOVIE? That worked quite well and was quite emotional and effective leading into the Hilltop Funeral Scene.


Oh, man! What a worthy challenger. Those two may be tied for me.

 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2020 - 11:04 AM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

...let's not forget James Horner's momentous heart attack music from BRAINSTORM.
That would be my Number One.


100% with you!
That's right guys! That one if I remember correctly was rather bombastic.

For a "kinder, gentler" scoring of a heart attack, how bout John Williams' music for Pa Kent's (Glenn Ford) final moments in SUPERMAN THE MOVIE? That worked quite well and was quite emotional and effective leading into the Hilltop Funeral Scene.


Oh, man! What a worthy challenger. Those two may be tied for me.






Having had more than one heart attack, I suggest the music mentioned above is no more accurately descriptive of my experience than sensurround rumbling is accurately descriptive of what it's like to be in an earthquake.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 12:48 PM   
 By:   Nils   (Member)

Listened to this for the first time today, and quite liked it. Certainly as good as most of Goldsmith's other lean scores from the 70s.

After reading some of the comments here I was prepared to be annoyed by the synths, but wasn't. I can understand how they aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I think they fit in nicely with the gritty feel of most of the score. The only irritating thing was that I was constantly taken back to the pilot episode of SPACE:1999 (produced around the same time), which uses an almost identical sound effect.

 
 Posted:   Oct 24, 2020 - 1:09 PM   
 By:   Lokutus   (Member)

Lucky you... still waiting for my copy to arrive.

 
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