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 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 3:52 AM   
 By:   Moonlit   (Member)

I saw this when I unpacked stuff recently. Is this still thought by some to Doctor Who's best?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 4:06 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

I saw this when I unpacked stuff recently. Is this still thought by some to Doctor Who's best?

Are you chatting about the serial itself on home video?
Or are you referring to the BBC CD on Geoffrey Burgon's 2 scores, 1st of which is "Terror of the Zygons"?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 5:21 AM   
 By:   Moonlit   (Member)

I saw this when I unpacked stuff recently. Is this still thought by some to Doctor Who's best?

Are you chatting about the serial itself on home video?
Or are you referring to the BBC CD on Geoffrey Burgon's 2 scores, 1st of which is "Terror of the Zygons"?


The music.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Having been a fan of Tom Baker DOCTOR WHO since age 12 in 1980, I admit that I've never gotten 'into' that music by Geoffrey Burgon.
Whovians tend to regard Burgon's "Terror of the Zygons" & "The Seeds of Doom" rather highly (it seems to me), but I suspect this may be due to these scores' dream-like chamber music qualities contrasting with the typical melodramatic incidentals by in-house composer Dudley Simpson.

If you don't care for it, then you are not alone. If you like/love this score, then I expect you have plenty of company. smile

 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 7:52 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Whovians tend to regard Burgon's "Terror of the Zygons" & "The Seeds of Doom" rather highly (it seems to me), but I suspect this may be due to these scores' dream-like chamber music qualities contrasting with the typical melodramatic incidentals by in-house composer Dudley Simpson.

Nice description, Zardoz - exactly right, and exactly why I do enjoy these scores a lot. Also they are still a couple of our favorite classic Who stories.

Not to take anything away from all the other great music - Malcolm Clarke's Seas Devils and of course Dudley Simpson especially! I love all the old BBC albums (and, well, pretty much all the music from all eras and shows of Who).

But Burgon's approach is among the most evocative for me.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 10:40 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Here are the tracks on that CD (from 20 years ago!)

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 20, 2020 - 11:50 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

Here is a video clip of a fan watching video clips of Zygons

https://youtu.be/_cN97TR_kJM

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 5:49 AM   
 By:   Moonlit   (Member)

I also like Death to the Daleks. The neutered Dalek theme gets criticism, but I think the point was they were without ammo and were not meant to be taken seriously. One of the more unique scores from Who.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 6:54 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Personally, although I see/hear the quality in Burgon's music, I find it a little too bleak and dissonant for my tastes.

Simpson has been called out occasionally for same-i-ness in his post Pertwee stuff and the intrusive qualities of his Pertwee era electronics, but he does have more melodic tendencies that I prefer. Despite his assertion on at least one dvd extra that he stays away from the thematic approach, he has come up trumps with examples like City of Death and the Time Lord stories (lots of nice organ music). I love what he did for The Three Doctors too, whimsical but fun, though arguably his best electronic theme is this for the rival kids hour show for ITV:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ei7i7RFvrUM

There was a story that director Douglas Camfield bore a grudge against Dudley Simpson which is why he didn't use him on his Who serials, hence Geoffrey Burgon for those two Tom Baker classics.

Carey Blyton's music is unique sounding. Barry Letts didn't like some of his stuff, for being wildly inappropriate and tonally wrong, and used less on at least one story than was composed. The only music I personally found too comical of his in places is The Silurians (or Doctor Who and the Silurians if we're being purist), where there are moments on a kazoo that seriously threaten the tone!

However I totally agree about Death to the Daleks. I love that Dalek theme! And the chanting inside the Exxilon city too. Very atmospheric.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 7:39 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

I also like Death to the Daleks. The neutered Dalek theme gets criticism, but I think the point was they were without ammo and were not meant to be taken seriously. One of the more unique scores from Who.

Yes, I agree on this. So unique. I'm unable to recall any other film or TV score written for a saxophone quartet.

During the '80s, I wasn't keen on the serials scored by Carey Blyton as they were broadcast on PBS. My appreciation increased as classic WHO stories were gradually, year by year, issued onto home video formats.
When "Doctor Who and the Silurians" was finally released on DVD (with its Blyton music isolated in bonus tracks), I truly love(d) it ever since. That krummhorn! Blyton's Silurians is currently one of my Top 10 WHO faves.

Can't say the same about Burgon's music, though I like "The Seeds of Doom" better than "Terror of the Zygons".

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 7:46 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)


There was a story that director Douglas Camfield bore a grudge against Dudley Simpson which is why he didn't use him on his Who serials, hence Geoffrey Burgon for those two Tom Baker classics.


Another curious thing (was it coincidence or intentional?) is that the only 2 stories by Robert Banks Stewart are also the only 2 serials scored by Geoffrey Burgon.
My understanding, too, was that director Camfield was responsible for brining Burgon into the productions - but were they both assigned to work exclusively on the Banks Stewart scripts?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 10:55 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

You got me there ZS, but of course even The Invasion has an electronic score (and soundscape really, which I love) by NOT dear old Dudley.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 11:21 AM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

You got me there ZS, but of course even The Invasion has an electronic score (and soundscape really, which I love) by NOT dear old Dudley.

Oh yeah, Dudley was only a semi-regular in the '60s.

I go back even further with my faves to Hartnell's 1st season ... what a lineup!
Tristram Cary, Richard Rodney Bennett, Stanley Myers ... even Norman Kaye (who dat?) did good in Year One.

Imagine a Peter Davison or a Colin Baker serial with any of the above's music!

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 5:13 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Geoffrey Burgon's music has always resonated with me. His scores for Tom Baker-era Dr Who are hands down my favorites, especially "Seeds of Doom." Douglas Camfield (along with David Maloney) is my favorite Who director.

Geoffrey Burgon also composed what sounds like an interesting score for The Treasure of Abbot Thomas, a film I'd love to see. He also composed an effective score for the HBO film When Trumpets Fade (1998) that I like.

Here's a suite of Burgon's "Terror of the Zygons":

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 5:25 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Well, whaddya know! It's my old Geoffrey Burgon appreciation thread.

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=85562

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 10:21 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

Well, whaddya know! It's my old Geoffrey Burgon appreciation thread.

https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=85562


Except it's not. I don't like it as much as LOADS of other Who music. Obviously I get the thread title, so in that case it is as you say....but it really isn't the be all and end all. Two scores? Pah! Grudge against Simpson? Pah!

But I do remember a one day Who convention where I sat down and a lovely chat with Douglas Camfield and he signed me the back cover of a fan produced essay on one of his stories.. The Crusade. Lovely guy. He had a diary which he consulted for every question from the audience, which prompted his memory every time and rattled on about everything of that experience.

Sad about his problem with Uncle Dudley though.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 10:27 AM   
 By:   paulhickling   (Member)

You got me there ZS, but of course even The Invasion has an electronic score (and soundscape really, which I love) by NOT dear old Dudley.

Oh yeah, Dudley was only a semi-regular in the '60s.

I go back even further with my faves to Hartnell's 1st season ... what a lineup!
Tristram Cary, Richard Rodney Bennett, Stanley Myers ... even Norman Kaye (who dat?) did good in Year One.

Imagine a Peter Davison or a Colin Baker serial with any of the above's music!


Weird isn't it? I actually loved loads of the Radiophonic Workshop's stuff, and was well onboard with them taking over the scoring.... until it all got a bit samey. The odd Simpson score would have been nice. Just to prevent that same-in-ness. Especially in most of the Roger Limb scored serials, which I found tedious. And then came The Caves of Androzani, which was Doctor Who's Blade Runner in more ways than one.

But I always liked Peter Howell and Paddy Kingsland's stuff.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 6:25 PM   
 By:   Moonlit   (Member)



A Landing In Scotland is one of the richest cues in all of Who IMO.

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 3:16 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Thanks to this thread, I re-watched "Terror of the Zygons" yesterday. It remains a fun viewing and of course, listening, experience. Geoffrey Burgon was the best.

Lillias Walker (Sister Lamont) was especially good in this, as were Ian Marter and John Woodnutt as the Duke of Forgill/Broton...

...but Sister Lamont was wonderfully creepy, just as I remember her. She was even married to Phelpsian Favorite Peter Vaughan.

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 4:22 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

It's still one of my favorite storylines, even with all the cringing I do watching Nessie at the end.

Agree with all you said, JimP.

I love as well the wonderful innkeeper* who leaves us far too soon.

His conversation with Sarah, where they talk about some folks, including the Doctor, seeing around corners, "quite a few!" - one of my favorite moments in the Tom Baker years.


*Too lazy this evening to go spelunking to find the actor and character name, someone will do it for me, I hope!

 
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