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 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 11:42 AM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

Just recently picked up on ebay, the original paperback edition of STAR THE MOTION PICTURE Movie Tie-In Novel Based on the screenplay by Harold Livingston and the story by Alan Dean Foster.

On page 22 we find the Spock on Vulcan / Kolinahr scene where Spock is about to purge all of his human emotions. Including, we find out in this novel version his deep feelings for James T. Kirk. "Jim! Goodbye my... my t'hy'la. This is the last time I will permit myself to think of you or even your name again."

There is an asterisk directing to an editor's note at the bottom of the page indicating that the Vulcan word "t'hy'la" which basically translates to "friend" can also mean brother or lover. It goes on to say how since Kirk and Spock had such a close relationship, that there had been rumors that they may have been lovers. Kirk basically denies it and says even though he has nothing against "any" kind of coupling relationships, he himself prefers "Woman" as his lover choice and with his sexual appetite wouldn't consider a lover like Spock who only mates every 7 years. Pretty funny stuff.

Just think of the potential the movie could have had if the crux of the story was changed to the "T'hy'la" story of Kirk and Spock and they threw out all the V'ger crap completely?

FASCINATING!

Get the Paperback Novel and Check it out!

"Please Captain, not in front of the Klingons."

Even though the 1979 Novel mentions this stuff, the raciest or sexiest we got in the movie I guess was McCoy's open chested shirt and his killer medallion necklace thingy. Oh, sorry I forgot about Ilia's super short Kung Fu outfit that strategically just barely covered the "V'ger"

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 3:26 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

"Dammit, Bones. We need him. I need him. Badly!"

As for Bones and his medallion. That must have been borrowed from the Abner Ravenwood museum archive. If it was something to do with a middle age life crisis, it seems to have disappeared with the beard. Something to do with Starfleet efficiency/sea legs and applying focus to the voyage once under way. But there was a pleasant element of sophistication to the Bones TMP characterisation under Wise, which went 'thataway' subsequently. Well, all the crew ended up happy forever afterwards. It's a wonder they didn't join the cast of Cocoon.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 3:57 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

There is an asterisk directing to an editor's note at the bottom of the page indicating that the Vulcan word "t'hy'la" which basically translates to "friend" can also mean brother or lover. It goes on to say how since Kirk and Spock had such a close relationship, that there had been rumors that they may have been lovers. Kirk basically denies it and says even though he has nothing against "any" kind of coupling relationships, he himself prefers "Woman" as his lover choice and with his sexual appetite wouldn't consider a lover like Spock who only mates every 7 years. Pretty funny stuff.

I suppose there's no harm in spelling out a sexual "live and let live" doctrine, but I don't know if Roddenberry would have put it this way in his TREK bible. Kirk sounds like Clinton with his "I never inhaled" comment about smoking pot. He's practically saying, "If Spock mated more frequently, well that would be different...."

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 4:15 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Again, from TMP according to Wise, Starfleet personnel involved with active service mission duties have to have some sort of oath of celibacy on record. I suppose if they are all for it they could either shave their hair off to look more Deltan or they could all acquire Norman monk hairdos, complete with the bald spot at the back with that frightfully straight fringe at the eaves of the dome. That should scare any potential suitors off.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 4:19 PM   
 By:   ZardozSpeaks   (Member)

STAR TREK: THE LGBTQ+ PICTURE

Ilia - the first non-binary character?

1st mission: to vandalize & remove the obelisk in The Paradise Syndrome because it's a symbol of evil white supremacist colonization oppressing Native American squaws.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 4:57 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Again, from TMP according to Wise, Starfleet personnel involved with active service mission duties have to have some sort of oath of celibacy on record.

Is that in the movie or are you joking? As McCoy said in original series (Space Seed), "There aren't any regulations against romance, Jim." Not that Kirk had to be reminded of that, har, har.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 5:17 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

I just watched the Director's Cut of STAR TREK TMP on DVD and at the end got a great big METAMORPHOSIS TV episode vibe. In the TOS episode, "The Companion" / Energy Cloud not unlike V'ger eventually "joins" with Cochrane hence becoming human and living with Cochrane as a human on the planet. It's just the reverse in TMP. Ilia/V'ger join together with Decker and they become the Energy Creature instead of going human. Maybe better "Joining" Special Effects in TMP and the bombastic Jerry Goldsmith music then in the TV episode.

In the end I must see Star Trek in whole as ultimately a TACO BELL Menu. What they offer and sell is always the same shit. Basically beans, meat, cheese but put together in many differently titled edible items. All the Star Trek stories were recycled from other similar stories, creatures, aliens and situations and told over and over again.

Maybe the only difference is Star Trek never gave me diarrhea right after I watched it.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 5:29 PM   
 By:   zooba   (Member)

But I just can't get enough of Original TOS STAR TREK and the Feature Films with the original Cast.

I warmed to NEXT GEN after a while, but at first it was just a talky wannabe with a Bald old guy sounding Shakespearean and I hated it. Riker and Troi came off as Horn Dogs just waiting for their next new sexual victim each week to beam aboard the ship that they could get Jiggy wit.

DEEP SPACE NINE bored me to no ends with all of its Religious and Political Dominion Themes / Sisko as Prophet stuff. Sisko I just found completely boring as the leader of the Space Station and the O'brien and Keiko stories became more and more unbearable. Odo and Quark were cranky and boring. Kira and Julian were one note.

VOYAGER was fun to work on as an Extra but it was just more of the same going on and on and on.

ENTERPRISE had the hot sexy Vulcan T'pol. That's it.

Did not think NEXT GENERATION transferred well to the Big Screen at all.

J.J. Feature incarnations. No thanks. Karl Urban honored and celebrated Deforest and Quinto looked like Spock.

DISCOVERY and PICARD. Pure garbage that completely crapped on real Star Trek.


Wow, I just had a Spockish "Kolinahr" moment. I just purged all my true feelings on STAR TREK.

Please share your TRUE thoughts.

KIRK, SPOCK AND McCOY RULE!!!


I really wish they would have done this with the J.J. shit. Would have been so much better!

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 6:08 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Jeez. It used to be going back into the water that made you very afraid. Now you can't even trust your own glazzies!

West Side Story with the Jets played by the TOS crew and the Sharks are all Klingons. It would be like being on another planet.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 6:17 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Abrams Spock's girly voice is horrible coming from vintage Spock's visage. And I'm not succumbing to the 2.0 amazon prime lingo to distinguish between real and Abrams fake TREK.

 
 Posted:   Sep 21, 2020 - 10:22 PM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

Even though the 1979 Novel mentions this stuff, the raciest or sexiest we got in the movie I guess was McCoy's open chested shirt and his killer medallion necklace thingy.Oh, sorry I forgot about Ilia's super short Kung Fu outfit that strategically just barely covered the "V'ger"

I'm getting excited just by the thought of it.

Who was Ilia again?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 2:17 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

The one who looked like Kojak...without the lollipop wink

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 6:54 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

In the end I must see Star Trek in whole as ultimately a TACO BELL Menu. What they offer and sell is always the same shit. Basically beans, meat, cheese but put together in many differently titled edible items. All the Star Trek stories were recycled from other similar stories, creatures, aliens and situations and told over and over again.

Maybe the only difference is Star Trek never gave me diarrhea right after I watched it.


Actually, while the ingredients were sometimes the same (because a Taco isn’t going to vary all that much), but they tried to be more nutritious. The point was to put substance in a package the average person could stomach. At its best, it wasn’t the same meal over and over but they did go back to family favorites. Sometimes the ingredients had more spice, other times they went with the tried and true. Overall, it was a more than satisfying mix.

As for the novel, it was Gene Roddenberry’s version of the finished screenplay. If he had his way, the film would have played more like that, with Sulu getting a boner over Ilia and Kirk swinging both ways when it came to Spock.

I can’t say it’s my favorite novelization, but it is an interesting version of the story.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 7:03 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I seem to remember a scene in which Decker 'stood up' to Kirk with his piece holstered a certain way during the confrontation. I guess that was the closest Trek got to being a Spaghetti Western. I tend to think that Wise was really wired even though he always played the innocent without any wayward intent intended.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 7:28 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

* I always thought the scene in sickbay when Spock and Kirk were holding hands was rather odd. It was a little to passionate. The way Kirk looked into Spock’s eyes. The love was intense.

* Only Ilia gave an oath of celibacy because apparently her species gave every man she came across an instant boner.

* Zooba- Enterprise was probably my second favorite Star Trek. I liked the designs and sets. I liked the crew. It just needed better scripts. Agree on the rest.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 7:28 AM   
 By:   Jehannum   (Member)

If he had his way, the film would have played more like that, with Sulu getting a boner over Ilia ...

Would have been cool if Uhura got jealous over that.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 8:51 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

Novelizations are quite often very very different. And they were almost writing this movie within the 48 hour range of shooting it in some cases.

In other news;
We can get a 4k update of Coming to America from Paramount, but they cannot give us the Trek movies updated

Deep Space, somewhat oddly loved in Trek-dom, aside from some episodes, is stupendously boring and visually ugly quite often.

Enterprise was a whipping boy, once they let Coto take over it became fairly good.
It could have aged up nicely with another two years.

Yes, I confess, I found a lot of Voyager quite enjoyable.

Yes, I confess I found Generations quite an enjoyable film.
And I did not hate Nemesis as much as I am supposed to.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 5:54 PM   
 By:   Adm Naismith   (Member)

https://anchor.fm/inglorious-treksperts/episodes/NEW-HUMANS--LOVE-COACHES--VGER--OH-MY---THE-NOVELIZATION-OF-STAR-TREK-THE-MOTION-PICTURE-e2ud3u/a-a8r4q0

Everything you wanted to know, but were afraid to ask, about the differences between the movie and the novelization.
Good stuff.

Apart from the first season of TNG, this will give you good insight on what Roddenberry's thinking about the future, post TOS.

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 6:58 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

* I always thought the scene in sickbay when Spock and Kirk were holding hands was rather odd. It was a little to passionate. The way Kirk looked into Spock’s eyes. The love was intense.


You mean them "holding hands" through that Covid glass wall? Intense?

Well, the eyes, yeah. Death is the only time men in movies show emotion toward each other (at least emotions that aren't a prelude to a fight).

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 6:59 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

and with his sexual appetite wouldn't consider a lover like Spock who only mates every 7 years. Pretty funny stuff.



Ha! Made me snicker!

 
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