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 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 7:18 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

The captain of the Beagle had no idea what one of his shipmates had really been up to during the course of the entire voyage of scientific endeavor. Later, when it was revealed what that shipmate had been up to, he slit his own throat. He apparently didn't like the idea of monkey business taking place aboard ship right under his nose.

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2003/jun/29/biography.scienceandnature

 
 Posted:   Sep 22, 2020 - 8:02 PM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

* I always thought the scene in sickbay when Spock and Kirk were holding hands was rather odd. It was a little to passionate. The way Kirk looked into Spock’s eyes. The love was intense.


You mean them "holding hands" through that Covid glass wall? Intense?

Well, the eyes, yeah. Death is the only time men in movies show emotion toward each other (at least emotions that aren't a prelude to a fight).


No, not the death scene in Wrath of Khan. I'm referring to the scene after Spock mind melds with V'ger and is recovering in sickbay. Spock grabs Kirks hand and says, paraphrasing, "This simple feeling is beyond V'gers comprehension." Kirk grasps Spock's hand firmly and looks lovingly into his eyes.

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 2:40 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

I do remember that scene. Spock is recovering in sick bay from his galivanting outside the Enterprise in his attempt to unravel the intruder's purpose. How he explained that neck pinch on a crew member minding their own business is highly glossed over. Spock should have just come clean and said, "I'm going out there to see what I can find out," to which there surely could not be much opposition in view of the fact they were getting short on time. Kirk did, in fact, go outside Enterprise to help his friend as much as he could in a somewhat limited capacity.

Now, that grip. It was to illustrate that V'GER, Vjur, or whatever, had filled up a huge memory bank with raw information about Universal physical law, but couldn't comprehend what it feels like to simply pick up a book and feel the pages between fingertips. No? Yeah, they make a connection, which I think they acted out pretty well in the film. I'd say that Wise got whatever HE wanted from the script at that point. To quote, "Jim, this simple feeling is beyond VGER's comprehension." That's a mutual tick for the director, Shatner and Nimoy all rolled into one. wink But you're right in that I don't think anywhere else in the franchise was a point of mutual understanding between Kirk and Spock so well flushed out. That's another feather in the director's cap setting out how this feature differed so prominently from all the others.

There's so much unwritten stuff that makes TMP subtle. For a large part of the first act, it isn't Spock acting as Kirk's right-hand man. No, I'm not speaking of Decker as EXEC, but Bones, who hovers around Kirk in his captain's chair offering doctorly advice - "Jim, you're pushing. Your people know their jobs." Wise was obviously putting his own input as director into the Trek arterial system. It's pretty obvious now, but the interactions we never saw in TOS between the principal characters, Wise took advantage of in the premiere Trek feature it was his privilege to bring home.

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 4:42 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

You mean Bones was Kirk's Yoda? Yeah, I got that at the time. wink

One thing I love about Kirk in the movies, despite Shatner's bloated ego is they focused a lot more on his flaws and his need to overcome them. Unlike all the Mary Sue garbage we get today.

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 7:12 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

The “every seven years” thing is always taken so literally. Pon Far, the mating drive, is supposed to be “every 7 years” (which is never said in Amok Time by the way). Spock can have sex whenever he needs to, but he is required to return home to create more kids and keep the line going.

I do remember that scene. Spock is recovering in sick bay from his galivanting outside the Enterprise in his attempt to unravel the intruder's purpose. How he explained that neck pinch on a crew member minding their own business is highly glossed over. Spock should have just come clean and said, "I'm going out there to see what I can find out," to which there surely could not be much opposition in view of the fact they were getting short on time. Kirk did, in fact, go outside Enterprise to help his friend as much as he could in a somewhat limited capacity.



I totally understand Spock’s Sneaky Pete method of heading into V’Ger: it was a one-way trip, he didn’t intend to return (he jettisoned his thruster pack once it was out of fuel). He was also more interested in getting answers to his own questions as he was hugely conflicted since receiving communications from V’Ger. It was a personal journey for Spock and knowing Kirk’s reluctance to send his men on one way missions (he would be ”smuckishly heroic” and attempt to do it himself) and Kirk would absolutely have argued with him. So in order to save time, Spock just knocked out the daydreaming porn star guy on duty and took off on his own. Kirk, knowing his friend as well as he does, didn’t need to ask him about it. He totally got it.

There's so much unwritten stuff that makes TMP subtle.

And I think that was one of them.

 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 8:04 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Yeah, very good. The V'Ger Spockwalk was his first head-on with Kobayashi. Kobayashi Pt.1. You only live twice, Mr Spock, Pt.2. There is no Pt.3, just Perdition's Flames, I guess.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 23, 2020 - 8:08 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

After you read Preston's book and then the Jeff Bond book you gain a great deal more respect for the achievement of this film. This production was mammoth, and insane. And the scale of the workmanship and dedication to craft behind the scenes is very impressive. This kind of immaculately detailed work in sets and models and visual effects just does not exist anymore, and the extent to which these guys gave up their lives for about 9 months is really amazing.

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2020 - 9:08 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

* I always thought the scene in sickbay when Spock and Kirk were holding hands was rather odd. It was a little to passionate. The way Kirk looked into Spock’s eyes. The love was intense.

I'm all for free speech, and if you want to keep me that way...

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2020 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Oh my lord the new Jeff Bond co-authored STTMP book is glorious!

I've said it before and I'm just going to keep saying it. Because it's true, is why!

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2020 - 10:59 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Oh my lord the new Jeff Bond co-authored STTMP book is glorious!

I've said it before and I'm just going to keep saying it. Because it's true, is why!


You haven't really experienced it until you've read it in the original Klingonee.

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2020 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   DavidinBerkeley   (Member)

The “every seven years” thing is always taken so literally.

It's more fun that way. smile

 
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