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 Posted:   Nov 18, 2020 - 4:05 AM   
 By:   makro   (Member)

I really like the score so far (ep3) since it actually stands out and is audible. This seems to be an unfashionable opinion though since the reviewer of the show's episodes two and three on the AV Club site remarks twice that they don't like how the music highlights moments where the audience is supposed to feel emotions. I don't subscribe to this attitude. What's wrong with music triggering emotions?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2020 - 4:14 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

"What's wrong with music triggering emotions?"
-------------------
It seemed to go out of fashion through the 90s and into the new millenium.
No one needs to be directed how to feel now by the music score, unless it's via a really miserable emo-style version of a once popular song, that is stripped down to plinky piano and throat wobbling vocals by a young girl on her way to a hanging (possibly her own).
Gotta love progress wink

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2020 - 4:54 AM   
 By:   makro   (Member)

OK, but what's with the visuals triggering my emotions? That's still ok? Maybe people not down with being emotionally invested via multiple senses should read a book.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2020 - 5:10 AM   
 By:   ryanpaquet   (Member)

I am also enjoying the score this season. I'm really curious how it's going to progress, as it seems that music might be key to the plot this season.

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2020 - 6:42 PM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

"What's wrong with music triggering emotions?"
-------------------
It seemed to go out of fashion through the 90s and into the new millenium.
No one needs to be directed how to feel now by the music score, unless it's via a really miserable emo-style version of a once popular song, that is stripped down to plinky piano and throat wobbling vocals by a young girl on her way to a hanging (possibly her own).
Gotta love progress wink



At this point, why even have a score?


In all seriousness though, I think style fluctuates. The same thing has even happened before with film scores--look at the shift from the sixties through the seventies and into the eighties. A lot of it has to do with whatever the youth culture of the times is listening to...but not everything can be predicted by what the cool kids are listening to.


It's entirely possible for big, dramatic, emotionally charged orchestral film scores to come back into fashion if the right story/filmmaker comes along (ala Star Wars in 77 or how every 007 imitation in the 60s needed a jazz infused score to be considered legit).

 
 Posted:   Nov 18, 2020 - 10:22 PM   
 By:   makro   (Member)

Fair enough but I'm sure that the showrunners of Disco wouldn't have included a score that is indeed a little more than just background noise if there really were no audience for it. So there is something to enjoy for us, the lost generation, that was led to believe that the glorious era of orchestral scores beginning in 77 would never end but then was kind of let down by the modern move towards noise over feelings. To be fair, afaik Roddenberry asked the composers for TNG to dial it down all the time (and that was end of 80s) so it's astonishing that it is yet another Trek show that kinda brings back the discernable motifs and such.
My main criticism is with the reviewer on AV Club that basically says that this kind of score is so out of touch and over the top.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 19, 2020 - 1:36 PM   
 By:   Filmmaker   (Member)

To be fair, afaik Roddenberry asked the composers for TNG to dial it down all the time

Nope, not Roddenberry. Rick Berman. And goddamn him to this day for that short-sightedness.

 
 Posted:   Nov 20, 2020 - 7:01 AM   
 By:   makro   (Member)

You're right, sorry, I mixed them up. But at least some of them pushed back when they at least reintroduced some meat with the Borg two parter and later eps.

On the other hand, I love TNG and DS9 despite the weak score so maybe they were on to something ;-)

Looking forward to some cool Disco eps and scores.

 
 Posted:   Nov 20, 2020 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)


My main criticism is with the reviewer on AV Club that basically says that this kind of score is so out of touch and over the top.


Completely agree, like I said, why even have a score if it's not serving the story?

I'm rewatching DS9 right now and I have to agree that the music on DS9 in particular (at least the early seasons) is very nondescript, beyond doing that same key-change sting that they did constantly on TNG whenever they change to a new scene. There is emotion in the music but it is so subtle that if I was listening to it divorced from the visuals and dialogue, I'd have a hard time figuring out if the music was suppose to be scary or mysterious or depressed. I will say though that they are very good about establishing the TONE of scenes in the TNG/DS9 scores, even if the music is emotionally bland.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 21, 2020 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   Captain_Kaos (no Giacchino fan)   (Member)

Then you're listening to the wrong cues. LLL's TNG & DS9 CD-sets prove the opposite. At the moment I cannot listen to the "Disco" & "Picard"- stuff. It's so incredible boring.

 
 Posted:   Nov 21, 2020 - 12:02 PM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

Then you're listening to the wrong cues. LLL's TNG & DS9 CD-sets prove the opposite. At the moment I cannot listen to the "Disco" & "Picard"- stuff. It's so incredible boring.

Don't get me wrong--there was some great stuff being done on TNG, especially by Ron Jones in those early seasons. Best of Both Worlds is classic. I just wish there was a bit more ooomph to some of the cues--for instance watching Voyager and the scores by David Bell and Paul Baillargeon were always really fantastic and helped pace the story perfectly. Chattaway and McCarthy had some good stuff too but the music's role tended to be less noticeable while watching the show. Some of McCarthy's music is downright ambient.

 
 Posted:   Nov 21, 2020 - 12:24 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

Not to derail this thread too much, but I'm a huge fan of all the music from the TNG-ENT era of Star Trek. This week I was catching up on episodes of Voyager, since I missed most of it and watched the 2-part Unimatrix Zero, scored by Dennis McCarthy. Part 1 featured a gripping action cue for an attack in the "Unimatrix Zero" environment that had this halting brass ostinato, while Part 2 featured some lovely cues featuring flute and clarinet duos. Like, you could actually clearly hear the flute and clarinet lines in the music and all of this is to say that I missed hearing variety of tones in orchestral TV scoring. Russo's music for Discovery has been okay but it's often more of a bland mix of white-washed staccato or legato strings that just hangs around. Even though McCarthy's music was often fluid, more about instrumental colors than melodies, I still got a better sense of the 50-piece orchestra playing on each episode.

 
 Posted:   Nov 21, 2020 - 4:14 PM   
 By:   ST-321   (Member)

Then you're listening to the wrong cues. LLL's TNG & DS9 CD-sets prove the opposite. At the moment I cannot listen to the "Disco" & "Picard"- stuff. It's so incredible boring.

I think that there are some really stand out cues in Season 2 of Disco and am happy to have the release for it and Picard. I would welcome a season 3 release of Disco too.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 21, 2020 - 4:39 PM   
 By:   jb1234   (Member)


My main criticism is with the reviewer on AV Club that basically says that this kind of score is so out of touch and over the top.


Completely agree, like I said, why even have a score if it's not serving the story?

I'm rewatching DS9 right now and I have to agree that the music on DS9 in particular (at least the early seasons) is very nondescript, beyond doing that same key-change sting that they did constantly on TNG whenever they change to a new scene. There is emotion in the music but it is so subtle that if I was listening to it divorced from the visuals and dialogue, I'd have a hard time figuring out if the music was suppose to be scary or mysterious or depressed. I will say though that they are very good about establishing the TONE of scenes in the TNG/DS9 scores, even if the music is emotionally bland.


Later DS9 has stronger scores but in general musically, the series feels like a missed opportunity. Enterprise had by far the best scores of the Berman era but they were saddled with a disappointing show.

 
 Posted:   Nov 21, 2020 - 5:03 PM   
 By:   Travis   (Member)

Nothing unfashionable about enjoying Discovery Season 3's score. The score is one of its biggest strengths. The overt thematic approach is adding to my enjoyment of the show and I have nothing but praise for what the Russo team is doing. My wife also noticed the score the other night when we were watching and said it was one of her favorite parts about the show.

I also just finished watching Star Trek Enterprise and while the show itself was frustratingly hit or miss (it hit its stride really in the the conclusive fourth season) I really liked the approach taken on the scoring, which was also overt like Discovery. Another strength of Enterprise was its diversity of composers. This eliminated any sense that the music was being done in cookie cutter fashion. Every episode felt fresh and like its own take. This is not to say that the other Trek series did not have good scoring because they did, but over the years the music became less fresh and in some ways was interchangeable from one episode to the next. Enterprise got Trek out of a scoring rut and I am pleased to hear that Discovery is continuing a fresh direction for Trek series scoring.

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2020 - 12:07 PM   
 By:   johnonymous86   (Member)

Not to derail this thread too much, but I'm a huge fan of all the music from the TNG-ENT era of Star Trek. This week I was catching up on episodes of Voyager, since I missed most of it and watched the 2-part Unimatrix Zero, scored by Dennis McCarthy. Part 1 featured a gripping action cue for an attack in the "Unimatrix Zero" environment that had this halting brass ostinato, while Part 2 featured some lovely cues featuring flute and clarinet duos. Like, you could actually clearly hear the flute and clarinet lines in the music and all of this is to say that I missed hearing variety of tones in orchestral TV scoring. Russo's music for Discovery has been okay but it's often more of a bland mix of white-washed staccato or legato strings that just hangs around. Even though McCarthy's music was often fluid, more about instrumental colors than melodies, I still got a better sense of the 50-piece orchestra playing on each episode.

I remember when this episode originally aired! I was watching and thinking "wow, David Bell is really pulling out all the stops!" and then I saw the credits and developed a new appreciation for McCarthy.

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2020 - 8:20 PM   
 By:   Superman1701   (Member)

The work of McCarthy, Chattaway, Bell, etc is light years better then whats been done on Discovery and Picard. I just dont feel the same about it. Unlike the Berman era shows, none of this music sticks with me or resonates.

 
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