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 Posted:   Jul 20, 2021 - 12:19 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

I don't hate the original take, but it doesn't fit the movie despite what the script may have called for and what the writer had in his head about it.

It's too much like the series theme, with a server clash if Rosenman's style shoe-horned into it. Maybe some clever arrangement of the old Courage theme with then Lenny scattered over it, might have worked. Doing a new rendition of the end credits for the opening gave the film some much needed punch. Didn't save it from being a terrible theme.


By the way Mutant, don't forget the un-used scoring. And some of the alternates that the Intrada Records liner notes noted were done for scenes with unfinished FX, might work.

 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2021 - 12:23 PM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

I'll check those out. Keeping busy with 2 Days in The Valley and might try some Saturn 3 next..

 
 Posted:   Jul 20, 2021 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Saturn 3 next..

That would awesome.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2021 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   other tallguy   (Member)

I have to wonder if Rosenman low balled this so it would get tossed. (TOSed?) He did such a fantastic job with the Courage theme in Home Again. The original main title is just so listless compared to how much energy he put into his own theme.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2021 - 7:29 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I was never a big fan on the original TV series theme either as far as pure music is concerned, but it's obviously deeply connected to the original series.
I don't think the STAR TREK - THE MOTION PICTURE theme is militaristic, it's energetic, rousing, optimistic, adventurous, but not militaristic or brash. Of course, it's also a very flexible theme, that can go from the dashing opening title to the inspired awe of "The Enterprise" or interpolated in various moods across many cues, such as the closing notes of Ilya's theme. But I never thought of it as merely militaristic.

(Apart from the point that, regardless of what Roddenberry had in mind or sometimes said, STARFLEET is militaristic in its structure, it's basically space military.)


The theme has a "Call To Arms" vibe to it. While Starfleet has defenses the Enterprise was on a five year "scientific" mission. Roddenberry wanted a far more cerebral series than what we ended up with.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2021 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

I have to wonder if Rosenman low balled this so it would get tossed. (TOSed?) He did such a fantastic job with the Courage theme in Home Again. The original main title is just so listless compared to how much energy he put into his own theme.

Funny you should say that. Its an old graphic designers trick too. When I had to put in three concepts for a project, I'd do one good concept and two crappy concepts so they'd hopefully pick the concept I wanted to go with.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2021 - 8:30 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)



The theme has a "Call To Arms" vibe to it. While Starfleet has defenses the Enterprise was on a five year "scientific" mission. Roddenberry wanted a far more cerebral series than what we ended up with.


Yet the episode he seemed to be most proud of was The Omega Glory which was filled floor to ceiling with action. Even The Cage had two scenes of extended phaser firing, one long scene of Pike fighting the Kaylar and loads of physical threats. For a pilot touted as a think piece, there is a good portion of action and violence, more than in the average 60's drama. Even The Fugitive had less.

Roddenberry didn't want a series bereft of action and adventure. Just the opposite, he wanted a SF series which had action adventure that carried a message. The network just wanted a little more action than what he presented and less of the sexual underscoring. When you compare it, The Cage isn't that much different than the average episode. Some episodes were heavy on the conversation and lighter on action: Charlie X, Court Martial, Metamorphosis, The Conscience of the King, for example.

The original series had Starfleet as an interstellar Navy with all of the ranks, traditions and privileges included. It wasn't simply an exploratory organization. The Enterprise was an exploration vessel, sure, but also a police vessel and a battle cruiser. Roddenberry LATER wanted Starfleet to be more like the Peace Corps and Picard like Jacques Cousteau. But remember, that was after 15 years of smoking his one home grown wacky tabaccy.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2021 - 8:46 AM   
 By:   The Mutant   (Member)

I don't hate the original take, but it doesn't fit the movie despite what the script may have called for and what the writer had in his head about it.

It's too much like the series theme, with a server clash if Rosenman's style shoe-horned into it. Maybe some clever arrangement of the old Courage theme with then Lenny scattered over it, might have worked. Doing a new rendition of the end credits for the opening gave the film some much needed punch. Didn't save it from being a terrible theme.


By the way Mutant, don't forget the un-used scoring. And some of the alternates that the Intrada Records liner notes noted were done for scenes with unfinished FX, might work.



Yeah I just listened to the score again and it sounds like they dropped a lot of the more humorous music for them walking around San Francisco. I think I’ll take a crack at that next.

 
 Posted:   Jul 21, 2021 - 9:26 AM   
 By:   Tom Guernsey   (Member)

That rendition of the TOS theme is terrible. I could've been on board if it was orchestrated differently.
Ironic since his rendition of the TOS theme at the end of the film is my favorite version of the TOS theme.


That's pretty much my take on both... the use in the finale is super (yeah, maybe my favourite, certainly the most effective use of it for a particular moment), but the opening titles version is weirdly listless. I do kinda like the way it moves to the more eerie music when all of the actor credits are over (which I assume was the intention).

I think it's those four note repeated figures in the brass which don't work at that speed and make it feel slower than it already is. A slow and noble version would be better served with lined melodies in counterpoint that slide and surge so there's more ebb and flow; the original arrangement actually already has that kind of counterpoint in it. If you're going to put rat-a-tat brass figures against the melody, it needs to be punchier and more varied in tempo. For a great example, the main Star Wars theme is an obvious one...the theme isn't that fast, but the brass figures behind the melody provide little bursts of energy and JW alters the rhythm of each burst which keeps it slightly off balance against the more regular rhythm of the melody.

Then again, I've often thought that the opening of ST:TMP would have been better served focussing on the V'Ger music rather than immediately going for the main theme, building the mysterious element.

 
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