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 Posted:   Sep 14, 2021 - 7:08 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

This might sound a bit odd, but since John Barry introduced the 007 theme in "From Russia With Love'" and used it in three other James Bond films ("Thunderball", "Diamonds Are Forever", and "Moonraker') leads me to the question:

What if Barry had used "007" in "Goldfinger"?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2021 - 7:42 PM   
 By:   villagardens553   (Member)

Used where? I don't think there was a place for it.

Also, considering how Barry based so much of the Thunderball score on Mr Kiss Kiss Bang Bang, including the chase scenes during the Junkanoo (not finished because of the title song switch), it's possible that it wouldn't have been included in Thunderball at all. He might have felt a time crunch and decided that 007 (and those parade and underwater battle variations) worked so well again that he kept the tune ready for future Bond films.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 14, 2021 - 10:06 PM   
 By:   Chris Malone   (Member)

It’s in You Only Live Twice too.

I can’t really think of a moment in Goldfinger where it would have worked either. Possibly for the dawn raid on Fort Knox, but not really as it’s not a ‘Bond moment’.

Irrespective, it’s a great tune and I love the variations of it Barry came up with, especially for Thunderball.

Chris

 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2021 - 12:55 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

I have a theory about this.

In hindsight, we remember '007' as John Barry's recurring James Bond theme, like he wrote it to be his own recurring theme in the series.

However, if it was meant that way, then, indeed, why not in Goldfinger?

I agree I'm not sure where the fast version might have fitted, but a slow, suspenseful version could easily have scored the Auric's Factory sequence.

But, remember, 007 only appeared in Thunderball because Barry had to scrap some music that had been based on the Mister Kiss Kiss Bang Bang song, and he was up against it time wise, both to get an album out and replace those cues.

My theory is '007' became the answer to that problem, a ready theme that could be used quickly.

Therefore not originally conceived as a recurring theme, but retro-actively became that after Barry resurrected it in Thunderball.

Of course, it's just a theory, and there's nothing I could do to prove it.

All I would say is, if they hadn't scrapped Mister Kiss Kiss Bang Bang as the song of Thunderball, I'd bet the '007' theme would not have shown up in that score, and if it had not, one must wonder if it would have shown up in the other films.

Cheers

 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2021 - 12:56 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Dupe post.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2021 - 1:11 AM   
 By:   Tango Urilla   (Member)

Maybe during one of the many scenes when Bond is being held in captivity he could be quietly humming it to himself as he's trying to think of a way out of the situation.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2021 - 1:12 AM   
 By:   Chris Malone   (Member)

Good theory, Stephen. I like it.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2021 - 2:07 PM   
 By:   AndrewH   (Member)

Interesting theories - but as the 007 theme appeared twice on the FRWL album, I think Barry intended that it was to be a recurring theme in the series.

But its use in Thunderball could well have been expanded from what was originally intended.

And remember the original James Bond Theme version from Doctor No which was used in all the other movies up to OHMSS also did not appear in GF.

007 theme in GF? I can't see it being used anywhere appropriately.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 15, 2021 - 3:22 PM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

Interesting theories - but as the 007 theme appeared twice on the FRWL album, I think Barry intended that it was to be a recurring theme in the series.

But its use in Thunderball could well have been expanded from what was originally intended.

And remember the original James Bond Theme version from Doctor No which was used in all the other movies up to OHMSS also did not appear in GF.

007 theme in GF? I can't see it being used anywhere appropriately.


"The James Bond Theme" is heard briefly (NOT in its original version) in "Goldfinger"'s teaser where Bond arrives in South America and on the beginning of "Oddjob's Pressing Engagement" when Oddjob drives Mr. Solo out of Auricstud and then kills him, with his body and his gold left in the Lincoln Continental when it's crushed at the wrecking yard.

 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2021 - 6:22 AM   
 By:   Stephen Woolston   (Member)

Interesting theories - but as the 007 theme appeared twice on the FRWL album, I think Barry intended that it was to be a recurring theme in the series.

I don't think really proves anything other than 007 was a recurring theme in the From Russia With Love score.

The fact it doesn't show up in Goldfinger is a stronger suggestion that it only became a returning theme retroactively. I mean, why compose an alternate James Bond theme and then not use it in the very next James Bond film?

But, truthfully, we'll never know for sure. Not unless Barry said in 1963, this is a returning theme.

(Later memories could be retroactive.)

Cheers

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 16, 2021 - 8:38 PM   
 By:   Jurassic T. Park   (Member)

It’s an interesting cue and was used twice if I recall, in FROM RUSSIA WITH LOVE:

- The gypsy camp fight
- Stealing the Lektor

I’m wondering how it was labeled on the cue sheet and which sequence it was intended for first. In general it seemed to fit the general “antics” of the lektor which was always a light-hearted performance that both Bond and the Russians are playing in the film - like they all know it’s a big scam they’re trying to pull on one another.

On the album I assumed the name “007” was just meant to be a concert name to represent the adventures of 007.

By the time THUNDERBALL came around, I’m guessing Stephen Woolston is correct that it might have just been a convenient replacement for other music. Although, since the song does have a balletic quality to it, it could have been a suggestion by Barry from the outset for the underwater battle “ballet” - because you’ll also notice that in THUNDERBALL it gets a more dramatic “B” section addition that adds more serious danger to it, evolving the cue.

 
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