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 Posted:   Nov 27, 2021 - 7:20 PM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

... or so these geeks think!



This maybe (according to them) a "one day" project but the end results is EVERYTHING wrong with CGI and special effects today.

I understand drop shadows, reflective light, motion blur, lens flares. What they don't understand is how to coherently put it all together into a shot that READS well!

They shoved to many visual elements into the shot. It's to dark and blurry. There's no focal point. The ship movements are robotic. The visuals look flat, ironic as they seem to think they've added depth. I simply cannot read the shot.

If they think this is how you improve a classic effects shot, its no wonder films look the way they do.

 
 Posted:   Nov 27, 2021 - 9:25 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

Maybe it is my bias for Corridor Crew and their excellent content and educational resources, but nothing about this video is them insinuating they did it "better." It is just an exercise for them to talk about VFX work, which is their job.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 7:06 AM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

The dude literately said we can make it look "better" in the first 10 seconds of the video and again at around 90 seconds mark. I enjoy some of their content but I think they are a bit self congratulatory at times. I don't think they did it better by any stretch of the imagination. They show technical skill but not artistic skill. I think their judgement is off too. He's also wrong when he said the only computer effects in Star Wars were the wire frame of the Death Star plans. I'm pretty sure the tackle displays shown during the tie fighter attack on the Millennium Falcon and in the X-Wings are computer generated.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 8:35 AM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

My random, unorganized thoughts:

There is nothing wrong with being a geek, but there might be nothing worse than a smarmy, conceited geek.

Their results look completely inferior to the original--even Lucas's CG additions failed to make the scenes look better, and he had obscene amounts of money and the best technicians to work with.

It strikes me that Lucas's team had to create everything from scratch--except for the cameras themselves.
These guys just clicked buttons--I didn't see them writing any code.

I'm left with the impression that these guys are not artists, but they delude themselves into thinking they are merely because they work in the realm of art.

I would say the whole exercise was a waste of a day.
But, who knows, I might be more generous with my praise some other time.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 9:32 AM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

Early on I liked their content but then the whole style of presentation started to bug me. It's to polished and commercial in style. Its over produced. Instead of a bunch of geeks sharing their love for special effects and animation they come across as reality show actors, just on YouTube. I don't think their critical enough when they do their "Whats Right and Wrong" type videos. They clearly love their craft as CGI animators so perhaps that was to much to expect.

Reading the comments section its nice to see some really good critiques of their efforts, pretty much mirroring what Ive said. Opposed to the countless "You made it better!" remarks! LOL

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 10:00 AM   
 By:   steffromuk   (Member)

... or so these geeks think!
This maybe (according to them) a "one day" project but the end results is EVERYTHING wrong with CGI and special effects today.

I understand drop shadows, reflective light, motion blur, lens flares. What they don't understand is how to coherently put it all together into a shot that READS well!

They shoved to many visual elements into the shot. It's to dark and blurry. There's no focal point. The ship movements are robotic. The visuals look flat, ironic as they seem to think they've added depth. I simply cannot read the shot.

If they think this is how you improve a classic effects shot, its no wonder films look the way they do.


I couldn't agree more with you!
I work in the industry (more on the animation part but I did a bit of vFX works sometimes).
That's clearly revealing the problem with Professional geeks who are too in love with their tools and want to show off all the candies they have in their bag in total disregard for storytelling or dramatic writing. they build their scenes as demo reels as if the rest of the movie didn't exist.
And because they're all in the same bubble they have no distance at all when judging their own work.

They also forget that the impression of realism is more important than reality in movies. you don't have to show a realistic lighting or bouncing light to make the audience be immersed.

And yes it's overloaded with unnecessary and distracting elements that completely confuses the audience.

The Nuke guy clearly doesn't know when to stop adding shit. It becomes a compilation of instagram filters.

I have nothing against fans making their own version of their beloved scenes or movies. But these guys are so braggy and pretentious. it's really a drag to watch them.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 10:54 AM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

@ steffromuk - Yes, you're right on. It was actually pretty embarrassing how they kept adding filter after filter like someone learning Photoshop for the very first time.

I've admired your custom cover art on the other side of the board. You clearly have a sound foundation in artistic principles along with technical skills.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 12:31 PM   
 By:   steffromuk   (Member)

@ steffromuk - Yes, you're right on. It was actually pretty embarrassing how they kept adding filter after filter like someone learning Photoshop for the very first time.

I've admired your custom cover art on the other side of the board. You clearly have a sound foundation in artistic principles along with technical skills.


Thanks a lot for the kind words!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 12:35 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

@ steffromuk - Yes, you're right on. It was actually pretty embarrassing how they kept adding filter after filter like someone learning Photoshop for the very first time.
I've admired your custom cover art on the other side of the board. You clearly have a sound foundation in artistic principles along with technical skills.



Seconded.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 12:51 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

The dude literately said we can make it look "better" in the first 10 seconds of the video and again at around 90 seconds mark.

I see what you are saying, but I think using the word "better" is their approach/thesis for their challenge. At the end of the day it is an exercise for their artists and tech and it is in the name of fun. Obviously they did not do it better than what was achieved in 1977 and none of their work undoes what John Dykstra and the team at ILM achieved (unlike what Lucas later does).

Do I find them self-congratulatory? Only in the sense that they enjoyed themselves and had a good time setting out completing a goal. If suddenly this is self-congratulatory, society has fallen farther than I can imagine into the dustbins of Twitter-sphere criticism of every action mankind can make.

For what it is worth, I believe the those displays are rotoscoped animation. I can't find any evidence of CGI being used in them during a decent search. Plenty of material on the Death Star wireframe CGI, however.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 1:48 PM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

If they simply said, hey we can recreate in CGI what they did with models then cool, they achieved their goals. They said we did it better with better tools. I'm taking them at their word. If you're going to make a statement like that you have to back it up with the end results. It's fair to critique their work based on the statement they were making. I'm not taking a negative stance as some kinda internet contrarian who loves to thumb down everyone's hard work on YouTube.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 2:03 PM   
 By:   Octoberman   (Member)

They said what they said and they failed.
There is no alternate universe where "better" has more than one meaning.

 
 Posted:   Nov 28, 2021 - 2:13 PM   
 By:   steffromuk   (Member)

To me it's all to do with the attitude.
The lack of humility and the slight condescending look on the work of their elderly pairs.

What they produced is pretty but far from adding anything to the movie. And could certainly not pretend to make the cut for a potential extra special edition of the original.

But this guy is actually getting it right creating full CG Star Wars scenes that feel like the original in the style of animation, camera moves and with the right amount of flares and glows.

His work is truly impressive.



And he also does some Star Trek stuff. He really has an eye for capturing the feel of the movies he's referencing.

 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2021 - 4:27 PM   
 By:   Grimsdyke   (Member)

Was it ever explained why the rebel pilots entered the trench so far away from the target ?

 
 Posted:   Nov 29, 2021 - 4:31 PM   
 By:   steffromuk   (Member)

Was it ever explained why the rebel pilots entered the trench so far away from the target ?

My guess is that it makes them less exposed to all the canon towers spread over the Death Star's surface?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2021 - 5:59 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

I got bored watching all this ! Turned it off.

 
 Posted:   Nov 30, 2021 - 7:30 AM   
 By:   LeHah   (Member)

There was a video some years ago where someone "modernized" the Obi-Wan vs Vader fight on the Death Star. Everyone praised it as incredible and a significant improvement. I found it banal, dull and absolutely lacking in spirit. This is no different: simple titilation for the JJ Abrams generation who requires newer and fancier ways to do a thing that automatically date it when its a week old.

So of course I'm not surprised the people who did this trench run "improvement" have their heads up their asses over it. Frankly, its not only in bad taste but also lacking in talent.

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2021 - 6:29 AM   
 By:   King Solium   (Member)

There was a video some years ago where someone "modernized" the Obi-Wan vs Vader fight on the Death Star. Everyone praised it as incredible and a significant improvement. I found it banal, dull and absolutely lacking in spirit. This is no different: simple titilation for the JJ Abrams generation who requires newer and fancier ways to do a thing that automatically date it when its a week old.

So of course I'm not surprised the people who did this trench run "improvement" have their heads up their asses over it. Frankly, its not only in bad taste but also lacking in talent.


Yes, I praised the re-imagined Darth/Obi fight. I thought it was extremely well choreographed. It was exciting, impactful and suspenseful. I was actually very surprised by all the negativity it got on here. I consider it the second best lightsaber fight Ive seen since the Luke/Vader duel in Empire. We couldn't be more opposites on that one.

Regarding this trench run video, we are in total agreement.

 
 Posted:   Dec 1, 2021 - 12:45 PM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

To me it's all to do with the attitude.
The lack of humility and the slight condescending look on the work of their elderly pairs.

What they produced is pretty but far from adding anything to the movie. And could certainly not pretend to make the cut for a potential extra special edition of the original.

But this guy is actually getting it right creating full CG Star Wars scenes that feel like the original in the style of animation, camera moves and with the right amount of flares and glows.

His work is truly impressive.



That one is good work.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 2, 2021 - 10:33 AM   
 By:   MikeP   (Member)

Well, it's new, but definitely NOT "better". I do admit I loved the re-created shots of the Death Star battle in the original Special Edition of A New Hope. There weren't many in that sequence, but they worked for me. These may be slick but they're just not better than the original. No matte lines, okay, but otherwise the only noticeable upgrade seems to be more green blaster fire. roll eyes

 
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