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Posted: |
Mar 29, 2023 - 10:55 AM
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By: |
Ny
(Member)
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Who is offended?
The film, unlike the man, has no guts.
But please, overlook my point all you want.
I give no consequence to your "point", whatever it was. I do find that off-handed and unintentionally (?) silly remarks about the film add nothing.
Oh now, let's not be bitter. None of my remarks were off-hand, this is a film I've examined and re-examined. If you would like to point out which remarks were silly, and why, I'll gladly account for them all over again, but none of us really want that now do we.
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Posted: |
Mar 29, 2023 - 12:40 PM
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By: |
Ny
(Member)
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Look, nobody likes it when a film they love gets trashed by someone, but it's healthy to look at things from a different perspective. Maybe that perspective won't be clear at first, maybe it never will. I'm not doing it to spite anyone, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's enjoyment of the film, I wouldn't jump in and trash a James Bond film for example, but this is a big and important subject. I'm doing it because I think it's worth considering, and isn't that what we do here, besides wait for announcements, don't we consider - and even criticize, if we dare - great works by great artists?
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Posted: |
Mar 29, 2023 - 1:15 PM
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By: |
Ron Pulliam
(Member)
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Look, nobody likes it when a film they love gets trashed by someone, but it's healthy to look at things from a different perspective. Maybe that perspective won't be clear at first, maybe it never will. I'm not doing it to spite anyone, I'm not trying to ruin anyone's enjoyment of the film, I wouldn't jump in and trash a James Bond film for example, but this is a big and important subject. I'm doing it because I think it's worth considering, and isn't that what we do here, besides wait for announcements, don't we consider - and even criticize, if we dare - great works by great artists?
"Trashed"? is that what you believe have accomplished? The healthy perspective, in my opinion, is that you get over yourself concerning your abilities to thwart anyone's pleasure of anything.
There are several "we" references in your remark. Don't you mean "I"?
You may dare anything you like, but I would remind you and everyone that "this" thread is about Goldsmith's score.
Are you for it or against it?
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Posted: |
Mar 29, 2023 - 2:42 PM
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By: |
WillemAfo
(Member)
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Imagine this - the soldier who gets slapped is a minor character in the film, who maybe defends Patton to his buddies who are griping about the forced march across Sicily purely for the sake of beating Monty to Messina. Then we see him post battle, and broken down, with his buddies awkward around him. Then the slap, and more awkwardness still among his friends, maybe some outrage. There lies the drama, and Patton's consternation that his momentum has been interrupted by this nuisance makes for a nice contrast, and a much clearer character sketch. It shows him in context rather than wrapped up in himself. No tropes there, it's just a more balanced account of the situation, and it contains the kind of guts the film is missing.
Locking us in to Patton's point of view just frees the audience from having to deal with the cost of it all, and the fallout. His great strength as a general was the he didn't consider these things. It was also his great failing as a person, and it caught up with him a few times during the war, but him feeling slightly sorry for himself is hardly the best way to illustrate that in a story that directly involves so many other people.
That's one way to go, but that's also a completely different story, and I don't even know if its historically accurate. Tonally it also wouldn't fit the movie as is and I don't see that shift improving the film at all.
I personally find the film successfully shows the up and down rollercoaster of Patton and the unique reality that he could be the most successful general with the quickest victories and lowest casualty rates, yet suddenly be on the bottom rung because of his mercurial personality. It's not just about slapping a soldier, it's about gambling on Palermo, the abhorrent act of shooting horses on a bridge, his hatred of the Russians, pushing his plan to invade Calais instead of Normandy, arguing over the reallocation of resources to take out V2 rockets... on and on he's constantly at odds with everyone, primarily Bradley, Montgomery, and Bedell. It's also worth noting that this was written based on research into Patton but also from Bradley as well, and Bradley acted as an advisor on the film. That really is the POV they wanted to tell this film from and I think it does it well.
If you're looking for something broader you might like "The Last Days Of Patton" which has a bunch of flashbacks to different people and events in his life.
Also, just a reminder that I brought up "Lawrence Of Arabia" because I was suggesting it may have been a model for the filmmakers on how to tell a biographical story, but I don't think they can really be compared. For one thing, Schaffner is a fine director but a bit more workmanlike than the more poetic Lean IMO.
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I guess our only option is to take this summary judgment and move on. I remember when I was trying to talk my wife into watching Lawrence of Arabia she asked me if there were any female characters in it. I said no, but that Lawrence was sort of a female character. It's since become one of her favorite movies. Still haven't talked her into watching Patton.
Lawrence is more of a work of art than Patton and Lean was more of a genius director than Schaffner, who kind of got typecast as a David Lean figure after Patton. Patton is more of a meat-and-potatoes movie but I do think it contains some great artistry in Scott's performance, the screenplay and the score if not some of its beautiful outdoor cinematography. It is a classic movie even if it's not quite Lawrence of Arabia, and I think Schaffner's Planet of the Apes is a classic movie in its own way with a great cultural impact. Both Goldsmith scores are wonderful works of art as far as I'm concerned.
Yes you are correct on all counts, Jeff. I think Patton and POTA are much smarter movies than most people give them credit for. The inversion of the Scopes Monkey Trial during the inquisition scene in "Apes" is quite brilliant, for example.
My wife and I switch off each night as to who gets to pick what movie / TV show we watch. Our agreement is that we promise to give each other's choice a fair shake, as in we do our best to go in with an open mind whether or not it's something we would typically be drawn to (if we hate it we hate it, but at least we don't dismiss each other's choices out of hand). I showed her "Patton" years ago. Imagine my surprise when she chose to rewatch Patton on HER night just a few months ago.
She thinks it's a brilliant movie; maybe your wife will feel the same.
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