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 Posted:   May 10, 2022 - 5:20 AM   
 By:   Les Jepson   (Member)

Do you have any thoughts on the score, Les?

It's been a while since I watched it, Graham, and I don't recall much about the score. I'll give it another go and come back.


I've re-watched it, Graham, and paid paricular attention to the score. A fine piece of work. It seems to me that Arnell had an excellent grasp of all sections of the orchestra -- the woodwind section, especially. His mix of tonal and atonal music gives the film a potent dramatic punch. The excellent blu-ray, among a host of extras, has an isolated music and sfx track. A number of the cues have very little or no sound effects, so it was good to hear them "clean".

 
 
 Posted:   May 10, 2022 - 6:36 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Thanks for the tip. Certainly an effective score. Refreshing to hear credits begin with solos and chamber textures. Will have to listen again.

But the movie! Which I had never heard of. Despite the plot improbabilities it's an impressive work. Hawkins and Attenborough never better. And Pamela Franklin! She surprised everybody as the mousy schoolgirl when she popped out of Robert Stephen's bed in JEAN BRODIE, but here she is playing what is essentially an adult role at fourteen. What a pity that Hollywood never figured out how to use her in mature roles.

 
 
 Posted:   May 10, 2022 - 7:04 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Seeing as the complete film, in decent enough quality, is up on YouTube, could someone with more know-how than I, post the direct embedded full-frontal jobby?

Haven't had much time yet to explore the Arnell symphonies. I commented earlier about how impressed I was with his Second. Dipping into his Third in my free time, but they need dedicated listening, not just ten minutes here and five minutes there.

 
 
 Posted:   May 10, 2022 - 7:07 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)


 
 
 Posted:   May 10, 2022 - 7:37 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Thanks Kev. And you're the very man who tried for decades to teach me the nuts n' bolts of postage. I never paid you for your failure as an instructor.

 
 
 Posted:   May 12, 2022 - 11:27 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

As I said earlier I ordered his cd of ballets the great detective and the angels. Well, it came yesterday. I've played it twice, so far. And quite nice and decent it is too. Melodic, chronic, accessible. I think there's a touch of ' Americana' in there, just a whiff. Which maybe a result of him spending time in the US,during the war till '48 (apparently). I think I might give some of his other stuff a shot.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 2:31 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Do you have any thoughts on the score, Les?

It's been a while since I watched it, Graham, and I don't recall much about the score. I'll give it another go and come back.


I've re-watched it, Graham, and paid paricular attention to the score. A fine piece of work. It seems to me that Arnell had an excellent grasp of all sections of the orchestra -- the woodwind section, especially. His mix of tonal and atonal music gives the film a potent dramatic punch. The excellent blu-ray, among a host of extras, has an isolated music and sfx track. A number of the cues have very little or no sound effects, so it was good to hear them "clean".


I agree about the mix of tonal and atonal music to give the film a potent dramatic punch, Les. It's nice that Kev gave us the YouTube link. It's a score (and film) which I think desreves more attention. Just listening once more to the Main Titles, I think that the slightly hesitant "lullaby", or something akin to a nursery rhyme, may voice the complexities of the child-woman Pamela Franklin character. Noticeable too is how the piano is prominent when signalling moments of unease, when there's something not quite right but which might not be evident or explicit onscreen. I'd like to keep dipping into this score via the YouTube upload. There's a lot of interest there.

I'm a bit of a disaster when trying to follow a "project" through to the end. I listened to Arnell's Second Symphony, and I almost got the the end of his Third before having to cut it short, but I would love to go on with that. I've loved what I've heard so far, but I've yet to hear anything which sounds remotely similar to THE THIRD SECRET. I suppose I might hear hints of it in the 99.999% of Arnell's output which I have still to listen to.

I still can't figure out the Germanic connection. Whenever a little combination of chords, or some other technique reminds me of something, I find myself thinking of Hindemith (or Franz Reizenstein). But I'm a novice at this and probably only "know" 0.0000001% of anything - when it's not a simple 0%.

P.S. to Prince Damian - I'm glad you like the Arnell that you got. It sounded like you were really positive about it, until you said it was "chronic". But we are from different parts of the UK, and it might be a regional language thing.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 2:41 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

Chronic was bloody spell check cock up. It was a humorous attempt to say/ spell- "choonie'. I didn't notice until you mentioned it!

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 2:53 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

Day, have you been sitting off smokin that wacky backy instead of posting letters today??

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 3:29 AM   
 By:   Prince Damian   (Member)

Day, have you been sitting off smokin that wacky backy instead of posting letters today??

Only in secondary, passive sense.

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 5:10 AM   
 By:   BillCarson   (Member)

I watched this last night.
I cant say i was totally engrossed - the girl irritated me - but great cast..espec Diane Cilento (recognised her voice from Hombre before i realised it was her) and Jack Hawkins was his usual underrated but totally convincing.

Still got 30 mins to view.

Not my cup of tea as a listen but i did think the main title was effective.

 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 6:34 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

Hey, Graham, I'm unsure as to whether you're having a dig at the way I reply to queries (am I too factual, provide too much detail?) ...

I'm sure that member ("MusicMad"???) probably has ALL his symphonies, plus the vocal renditions by Val Doonican conducted by Percy Faith and Stanley Black.

But as you now know, I, too, have a complete lack of knowledge regarding the works of Richard Arnell. Indeed, up until nearly 72hrs ago, I can't say I'd ever heard of him ... let alone his music. Many of these lesser-known composers will feature in my music library because I will have purchased a compilation CD which features a recording ... by one of many dozens of light orchestras, big band ensembles, etc. ... which do appear in my library.

Not so, Arnell: alphabetically, composers' names jump from Arne,Thomas to Arnheim,Gus - I hate to think of all the composers I am missing between Arne and Arnh apart from Arnell.

And, when it comes to performing (contributing) artists, the gap is even wider frown ... Arnau,B.J. (which I really should delete!) to Arnold Schoenberg Chor.

So, I can categorically state: I do not have any vocal renditions of works by Arnell, performed by Val Doonican ... whether or not the accompaniment was conducted by either Percy Faith or Stanley Black.

And, just for completeness (well, you know I like to provide all relevant information smile), looking at all 56 recordings I have of Val Doonican, none of them include either Percy Faith or Stanley Black.

Now, I could double check, and look at the recordings I have of both arrangers/conductors but the library being what it is, one of their names should have appeared, if there existed such a recording, when I searched under Doonican.

And back to Arnell: likewise, I've looked at what CDs are available and I'm tempted ... but these last few weeks I've been buying the concert hall works of, inter alia, Richard Rodney Bennett and Miklós Rózsa so both funds and time are very low.

I hope this reply was appropriate and not too detailed ...
Mitch
smile

P.S. I've not seen the film and have never been a fan of Stephen Boyd ... but I may give it a try.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 6:34 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

A bit premature to comment, don't you think? You are being misdirected!

Agree it's an effective score. I've also been enjoying Arnell's Third Symphony, thanks to a tip here. It does go on through six(!) movements. The finale is one of those pieces that just refuses to end -- but in a highly entertaining way.

Despite implausibility and some poorly staged action, I do find the movie's central relationship haunting.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 6:46 AM   
 By:   KeV McG   (Member)

I've just played the first few minutes of the film (linked) to hear the Main Title music and I was reminded - fleetingly - of Georges Delerue and Bernard Herrmann, while Arnell was doing his own thing.

 
 
 Posted:   May 13, 2022 - 9:08 AM   
 By:   Graham Watt   (Member)

Paging Mad Mr Mitchell, paging Mad Mr Mitchell! Ah there you are you NAUGHTY boy. Now just WHAT have you been up to? It doesn't matter really. I was only pulling your leg, mon! Did you really go and search to see if you had any Arnell vocals by Val Doonican or Percy Faith in your collection? Ha ha! I actually made those names up! Val Doonican indeed! Percy bloody Faith. You couldn't make it up (although I just did)!

But since all the world's a stage, and I'm the crying clown under the spotlight here ("Turn off that spotlight! You can see my head through my hair! That's why I stopped playing pool in bars!"), I'll revert to my serious self. It was just a wee joke, Mitch. Tee hee. I can understand that "going through phases" thing of picking up, in your case the classical Rózsas and the classical RR Bennetts, and thus overlooking the likes of Arnell. I'd never heard of him either until I saw THE THIRD SECRET and investigated further. By the way Mitch, I found parts of THE THIRD SECRET score somewhat like some of Bennett's work, just isolated occasions.

You say you never cared for Stephen Boyd's acting. I found him "confounding" in his role here, really awkward. But in a way that's fitting for the part, or it could be argued thus.

Anyway, I hope to hear more Arnell over the weekend. Then SECONDS will arrive (with a batch of other goodies) and that'll be Arnell swept under the carpet and forgotten about forever.

 
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