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From your posts, I understand that English may not be your first language and that is quite OK. Maybe I am detailing this wrong. But Wallfisch is a hired hand on these films, whether it is the examples you don't like (The Darkest Minds, etc.) versus the ones you do like (Mortal Kombat, etc.). He is given a budget and is asked to adhere to a schedule based upon the needs and means of the filmmakers, and directed to produce music that is matched to the picture based upon what the filmmakers ask of him. A lot of modern directors (I include Andy Muschietti in this based upon my experience with his movies) have zero music taste and that is not Wallfisch's problem. He is working with the material and inspiration they give to him, against the budget and time table he has to complete that. This is just how scores are made. On the opposite spectrum, I think a director like Leigh Whannell has either better understanding of music or better taste (according to me) and gave better direction to Wallfisch and Wallfisch rose to the challenge versus the budget. Although I wish he had stayed partnered with Jed Palmer I know that larger studio productions like their relationships with composers like Wallfisch and especially when they are presented as a package by talent agency representation.
But at the end of the day, the important thing is enjoying what you enjoy. If you like the movies, if you like the scores, that is a great incentive for your passion in them.
I didn't say The Darkest Minds is bad or don't like, is just ok, but for what i know about the production, was a very problematic one, not by my taste, mate.
Second, for Mortal Kombat, Wallfisch states he wanted to homage the original videogame (said by him in various interviews about the score), and make a very complex score with harsh electronics and orchestra with deconstructions of the original Techno Syndrome in various cues in the album (again, people is thinking this score is obligated or something by the producers when it wasnt', as Wallfisch have 4 months to write the whole before the movie even start shooting).
This is what Wallfisch said for Invisible Man:
' Well, the film is incredibly visceral and quite stylized in the sense that it feels almost like a classic Hitchcockian thriller, but with a very modern take. And the film isn't afraid to upend a lot of the expectations one might have from a horror/thriller genre. It's a very unique and extraordinarily well-crafted film, and very precise in its choices, editorially, and how the audience is really kept absolutely on the edge of their seat throughout. Leigh's vision was to have the music very much as a character, and not just as underscore. We really wanted the score to take an active role in the experience of the film. A lot of it was about articulating and using silence in a very rhythmic way. By that I mean: when there is music, it tends to be very left field, bold and quite extreme. So you almost don't trust the absence of music when there's silence. By doing that the silence almost becomes a musical event. There are very careful structural choices that were made to maximize that.'
Also this
'Having said that, though, one of my great heroes is Bernard Herrmann, and I've always marveled at what he managed to achieve with just a string orchestra in PSYCHO. It's one of my favorite scores for that reason. For a long time I wanted to write a score where, in terms of the orchestration, it's only strings, because the string players are really pushed to their absolute max when they don't have the support of a full orchestra. It's a much more intense sound in many ways, when you're asking just strings to play as if they're a full orchestra. That was the orchestral choice for this score.'
So, still IT was all the producers?
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In the end , yes, it can and does come down to the producers and / or director. The composer can say " I think the score should sound like THIS" - and if everybody agrees, goody, he gets what he wants. But as pointed out previously, he is HIRED to do a job - and if the director or producer doesn't agree with the direction of the music, the composer will either do as he is asked, or will be free to seek another opportunity.
There are plenty of stories of top of the list composers who are told what they will and won't include in their score.
Still don't get, don't we?
There a plenty of bullshiting to composers, yes, but THOSE specific cases are not, don't like those scores?, fine, isn't the main point here, the point is the believing of those scores sounds because the producers or director wanted and no, as i stated before.
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With the advent of technology re synth/midi mock-ups and whatnot, I can't imagine ANY director (or Producer) NOT giving instructions to the composer in regards to style or direction.
Obviously it's more micro-managed now, due to said tech.
Gone are the days when the composer would spot the completed film, chat about certain scenes and styles (maybe play a few notes/ideas on the piano) and then off they go for 5-6 weeks and return with their completed music at the scoring stage.
Off the top of my head, I can think of ONE instance where the director gave NO outlines or instructions to the composer re the music (in the liner notes to GLORIA, Bill Conti states that Cassavetes said 'how do I know, that's what I hired you for' when Conti asked what type of score he wanted).
Of course there are many other instances where the director or producer trusted the composer 100% to go away and deliver what they wanted/expected, but I doubt that's happening EVER today, even with the likes of John Williams or Hans Zimmer.
Obviously the composer will have some input into what he's gonna deliver, but it always has, and always will be a collaborative effort.
The result of if 'WE like it or not' is purely subjective thereafter.
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With the advent of technology re synth/midi mock-ups and whatnot, I can't imagine ANY director (or Producer) NOT giving instructions to the composer in regards to style or direction.
Obviously it's more micro-managed now, due to said tech.
Gone are the days when the composer would spot the completed film, chat about certain scenes and styles (maybe play a few notes/ideas on the piano) and then off they go for 5-6 weeks and return with their completed music at the scoring stage.
Off the top of my head, I can think of ONE instance where the director gave NO outlines or instructions to the composer re the music (in the liner notes to GLORIA, Bill Conti states that Cassavetes said 'how do I know, that's what I hired you for' when Conti asked what type of score he wanted).
Of course there are many other instances where the director or producer trusted the composer 100% to go away and deliver what they wanted/expected, but I doubt that's happening EVER today, even with the likes of John Williams or Hans Zimmer.
Obviously the composer will have some input into what he's gonna deliver, but it always has, and always will be a collaborative effort.
The result of if 'WE like it or not' is purely subjective thereafter.
Amen, brudda....
I canna add anything beyond agreement & ragging on, now.
Once upon a time, I would have given shits about this The Flash, film & score by Whoever....being a stellar piece.
Hopefully this generation is already bored & over Zimmer re-hashes, and want to peek into how all this music inna movie started out.... and stuff..
God Forbid, learn the names of Waxman & Friedhofer at least! Hope Springs..........
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SoldierofFortune, I shouldn't have to point out to you that in your choice of pull quote about the Invisible Man score, Wallfisch cites the direction that Leigh Whannell asked of him.
What direction?
Only points the style of the director, is the idea of the music in the movie, not saying 'he wanted synths and strings'.
Don't said things that are not mention by anyone.
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Posted: |
Jun 7, 2023 - 6:01 AM
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By: |
MikeP
(Member)
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In the end , yes, it can and does come down to the producers and / or director. The composer can say " I think the score should sound like THIS" - and if everybody agrees, goody, he gets what he wants. But as pointed out previously, he is HIRED to do a job - and if the director or producer doesn't agree with the direction of the music, the composer will either do as he is asked, or will be free to seek another opportunity.
There are plenty of stories of top of the list composers who are told what they will and won't include in their score.
Still don't get, don't we?
There a plenty of bullshiting to composers, yes, but THOSE specific cases are not, don't like those scores?, fine, isn't the main point here, the point is the believing of those scores sounds because the producers or director wanted and no, as i stated before.
No, FFS , that's not what I said at all ( talk about someone who doesn't get it  ). But since I get the feeling this is going to be like talking to a wall, have a lovely day.
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Interesting how little is debated about the actual scores in these threads about scores.
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Well, to be fair, outside of a few tracks, no one has heard it yet and the film doesn't open until June 15, so all we can do is bicker and show everyone how cool and knowledgeable we are.
True.
But it does say a lot that even in the absence of an available score some people use these threads to really go at each other’s throats about, well, opinions based on personal preferences.
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Sadly, it's the human condition.
Plant a stick with some opinions on them and soon after, someone will plant another with complete opposite ones.
And want to fight you over them.
The older you get, the more you realise there's no real hope for humanity to achieve lasting peace.
We're wired to bicker, argue and fight.
And The Human Adventure Is Just Beginning 
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Sadly, it's the human condition.
Plant a stick with some opinions on them and soon after, someone will plant another with complete opposite ones.
And want to fight you over them.
The older you get, the more you realise there's no real hope for humanity to achieve lasting peace.
We're wired to bicker, argue and fight.
And The Human Adventure Is Just Beginning
I‘m afraid you are right and that Roddenberry‘s vision of the future was too good for us.
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Like I said, Elfman's Batman theme is hard to mess up and, except the sound, I really like what I heard. Now it's only need to wait for the movie and soundtrack release.
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opinions based on personal preferences.
Yes, but no at same time.
Personal preferences are personal preferences (like i said, if you don't like some of his stuff, is cool, don't problem in that), but objectivity, isn't personal at all, is pure analitical and based.
Music, like movies, art, etc, have pure analitical aspect in it. That's all.
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opinions based on personal preferences.
Yes, but no at same time.
Personal preferences are personal preferences (like i said, if you don't like some of his stuff, is cool, don't problem in that), but objectivity, isn't personal at all, is pure analitical and based.
Music, like movies, art, etc, have pure analitical aspect in it. That's all.
From a perspective just analysing technical prowess, the pure writing, orchestrating and performing part - I would agree.
But it is a fine line between that and simply personal preference again.
In other words: I love John Williams. But I also love many scores by Hans Zimmer, even if the writing and orchestrating of both is probably inferior to any classical composer.
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Wow. How neat. That'd be so much fun. Lucky Texas peeps!
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