 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I wonder if there is a possibility for:
Return to Paradise
His Majesty O’Keefe
I Confess
Angel Face
Mutiny
Bugles in the Afternoon
The Adventures of Hajji Baba (I never heard what he wrote because the available prints have it replaced by Rimsky-Korsakov‘s Scheherazade.)
This can´t be true that only the Rimsky-Korsakov can be heard in the HAJJI BABA film itself. For example, in our German version - dubbed for theatrical release in 1954 - the complete Tiomkin score could be heard in the film when it was formerly shown on German TV during the 80s and 90s. And the Tiomkin score can also be heard in the Twilight Time Blu-Ray edition about which I had written here a few years ago (and you can also find this version on Youtube where they have apparently eliminated the Main Title song for legal reasons!):
https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=80847&archive=0
It´s only the isolated M&E track on the Blu-Ray which has been filled up with the "Scheherazade" music (and other library music) for all the scenes with dialogue as the original M&E track was no longer available and had not been preserved. This means that of course also the original music track is long lost and we can forget about it. Therefore the original recording of this Tiomkin score will unfortunately never be released on CD.
I also would like to have ANGEL FACE and I CONFESS on CD, but these are Warner and RKO films - so the original music elements certainly haven´t survived.
I wonder that Tiomkin´s THE SUNDOWNERS had never been released when the FSM label did still exist. Warners should still have the original music elements for this score. And there was a boot on the Cinema LP label at the end of the 70s with the original music.
But nowadays it is of course too late as it has become almost impossible to release WB scores from that time anymore due to all the legal bureaucray and the high licensing fees.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Exactly. It’s not prejudice, it’s plain ol’ judice. 
That said, as someone who usually shares your feelings about him, I will admit the last few new Tiomkin recordings from Tadlow were very good indeed, and turned at least one score I’d previously hated (The Fall of the Roman Empire) to one I enjoyed (even if not on the level of say the Rozsa epics tackled by the same label). It’s entirely possible there’s more worthy unreleased Tiomkin out there I might enjoy, and I’ll keep being open to that possibility. (That’s what sound samples are for!)
Yavar
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I’m pretty sure LLL was pursuing a definitive Old Man and the Sea remastered expansion, and something structural happened to put the kibosh on it unfortunately. I like that score (more restrained and subtle than I find most Tiomkin) and would have likely bought a better edition of it.
Yavar
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I’m pretty sure LLL was pursuing a definitive Old Man and the Sea remastered expansion, and something structural happened to put the kibosh on it unfortunately.
It had happened already in 2012 as there was an additional rights holder whom nobody at LLL had taken into account at first and who didn´t grant the license.
Here you can find MVs comments from that time:
https://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?forumID=1&pageID=3&threadID=90795&archive=0
THE OLD MAN AND THE SEA had even been planned as a double CD with the album re-recording in stereo on one CD and the original recording (certainly in mono) on the other disc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
Posted: |
Mar 23, 2023 - 1:57 PM
|
|
|
|
By: |
robertmro
(Member)
|
Thanks for reply, just wondering what prejudice you feel exists toward Tiomkin?
I don't think "prejudice" is the proper word, given that it means "an opinion not based on reason or actual experience." There are certainly film score fans (I wouldn't pretend to guess how many, my evidence is entirely anecdotal) who dislike Tiomkin's music, but that's based on the actual experience of listening to it. (Full disclosure: I happen to be one of them.)
Dear Schiffy,
You are a prime example of this prejudice. What you like or don’t is strictly a personal preference and the fact that I feel the complete opposite is my preference. To say it’s not is an opinion is disingenuous at best.
Dear Yavar
Rozsa is fine. I used to be a much bigger fan of his 30 years ago. I’ve grown a bit tired of way so many of his scores follow the same form. I happen to enjoy Tiomkin’s forms a bit more. That’s my preference. To set Rozsa as the standard for all epics to be compared ignores the fact
Alfred Newman, Franz Waxman, Bernard Herrmann, Max Steiner, Elmer Bernstein, Victor Young and more have written equal scores this genre too.
What makes this particularly unpleasant is it prevents members like me from participating more often. In short I avoid this part of town because I can be attacked. Is that fair?
I would like to mention that Jerry Goldsmith might be the most popular composer here. I was an early fan for Jerry starting in 1964. However I became less interested in his music as he progressed. While he started out very creative and experimental (though I couldn’t have known at the time that he was copying some classical composers. Seven Days in Day for example). As he went on he just lost the magic at least for me.
Do I constantly chime in with this opinion? Why not? Because I like to support the purpose of the forum. If spreading negative opinions prevents the release of even one new recording we defeat our common purpose.
I would like to thank both of you for providing my point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dear Schiffy,
You are a prime example of this prejudice. What you like or don’t is strictly a personal preference and the fact that I feel the complete opposite is my preference. To say it’s not is an opinion is disingenuous at best.
In what way was Schiffy being disingenuous? I don’t think he’s ever done anything except explain why, in his opinion, Tiomkin doesn’t appeal to him. That’s the opposite of disingenuous… and he already perfectly explained why “prejudice” was also the wrong word for this. He didn’t pre-judge at all.
Dear Yavar
Rozsa is fine. I used to be a much bigger fan of his 30 years ago. I’ve grown a bit tired of way so many of his scores follow the same form. I happen to enjoy Tiomkin’s forms a bit more. That’s my preference.
Of course it is, and that’s fine! Nobody’s saying you can’t have that preference or you aren’t welcome here for sharing it!
To set Rozsa as the standard for all epics to be compared ignores the fact
Alfred Newman, Franz Waxman, Bernard Herrmann, Max Steiner, Elmer Bernstein, Victor Young and more have written equal scores this genre too.
Hey I’m not the one ignoring epic scores by those composers at all! Read my sentence again. All I was doing was mentioning what Tadlow had concentrated on elsewhere, and saying their fine Tiomkin recording didn’t quite reach the level of their Rozsa albums, for me. They never recorded any Alfred Newman, but to me Alfred Newman absolutely rivals Rozsa when it comes to that genre. In fact Newman is my favorite composer of the Golden Age, and that’s largely based on epics such as The Robe, The Egyptian, David and Bathsheba, and of course my #1 favorite Golden Age score ever, Captain from Castile (yes for me it tops even El Cid!)
What makes this particularly unpleasant is it prevents members like me from participating more often. In short I avoid this part of town because I can be attacked. Is that fair?
Who on earth is so persecuting you, and how? You’re acting like a victim (and implying Schiffy and I are your “attackers”?) I don’t think THAT is fair. You’re entitled to your opinion, we’re entitled to our opinion, and I haven’t seen a single person saying anything otherwise.
I would like to mention that Jerry Goldsmith might be the most popular composer here. I was an early fan for Jerry starting in 1964. However I became less interested in his music as he progressed. While he started out very creative and experimental (though I couldn’t have known at the time that he was copying some classical composers. Seven Days in Day for example). As he went on he just lost the magic at least for me.
I mean, I disagree with you of course but you’re certainly entitled to your opinion and it’s frankly a pretty common one around here, even in this den of Goldsmith nuts! Hell, the FSM magazine itself perpetuated that notion in print for many years!
Do I constantly chime in with this opinion? Why not? Because I like to support the purpose of the forum. If spreading negative opinions prevents the release of even one new recording we defeat our common purpose.
Actually I’ve seen you chime in with that opinion on multiple occasions… and that’s FINE! The purpose of this forum is GENERAL DISCUSSION about film music. If that doesn’t include discussing dislikes as well as likes for you, then I don’t think you understand the purpose of this forum. Of course it shouldn’t be a place for rampant negativity and just “trashing” film music, but I don’t think that’s what we were doing. Schiffy has always been perfectly polite and only expressed his own taste.
I would like to thank both of you for providing my point.
How did we do that, exactly, assuming your point was that there is “prejudice” against Tiomkin?
Yavar
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
