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 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 4:44 AM   
 By:   ghost of 82   (Member)

I feel regards the Dune films just as I do the LOTR films: they are fine as films especially for casual viewers but if you're familiar with the books, it's hard to shake off the omissions or things not handled so well. I'm almost envious of someone watching the Dune films ignorant of what's missing or changed, because as someone who loves the book, I can't help but have some issues.

Yes they are clearly very good films and will be well regarded but perfect adaptations? No. And it inevitably colours my perception of them, same as it does the LOTR films.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 4:48 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

I feel regards the Dune films just as I do the LOTR films: they are fine as films especially for casual viewers but if you're familiar with the books, it's hard to shake off the omissions or things not handled so well. I'm almost envious of someone watching the Dune films ignorant of what's missing or changed, because as someone who loves the book, I can't help but have some issues.

Yes they are clearly very good films and will be well regarded but perfect adaptations? No. And it inevitably colours my perception of them, same as it does the LOTR films.


But to adapt a book for a movie version means making choices, omissions, changes.
If you only accept an adaptation which does not omit anything and will absolutely bring your vision of the book to the screen you will wait forever.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 4:53 AM   
 By:   keky   (Member)

I feel regards the Dune films just as I do the LOTR films: they are fine as films especially for casual viewers but if you're familiar with the books, it's hard to shake off the omissions or things not handled so well. I'm almost envious of someone watching the Dune films ignorant of what's missing or changed, because as someone who loves the book, I can't help but have some issues.

Yes they are clearly very good films and will be well regarded but perfect adaptations? No. And it inevitably colours my perception of them, same as it does the LOTR films.


I love the LOTR books very much but still think the movies were a close to perfect adaptations. As for Dune I'm not that big fan of the novel (as a matter of fact I don't really remember it) so no changes in the movie version bothered me at all.

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 6:24 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 9:24 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I feel regards the Dune films just as I do the LOTR films: they are fine as films especially for casual viewers but if you're familiar with the books, it's hard to shake off the omissions or things not handled so well. I'm almost envious of someone watching the Dune films ignorant of what's missing or changed, because as someone who loves the book, I can't help but have some issues.

Yes they are clearly very good films and will be well regarded but perfect adaptations? No. And it inevitably colours my perception of them, same as it does the LOTR films.


As others have noted you have to interface with the concept of adaptation. And it is a struggle. It is a struggle for the person adapting as much as it is for the audience member who is overly familiar with the source. Eventually you have to reconcile as an audience member as the adaptor(s) must do: accept the challenge of abandoning your darlings and facing the consequence of a new media presentation. Even Frank Herbert himself has spoke at length of this. ETOnline did a good retrospective article about Herbert's interviews regarding the Lynch adaptation:

https://www.etonline.com/what-dune-author-frank-herbert-said-about-the-1984-david-lynch-adaptation-flashback-174069

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 10:03 AM   
 By:   Ado   (Member)

I think the Toto score from the 84 film works pretty well, as a somewhat traditional orchestral/pop hybrid. It is, I guess, of a time and place, but still stands up fairly well. The film itself, problematic, usually works better than I expect to, if watched with a position of grace.

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 10:26 AM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

Just to add my 2 cents to this topic, as a long-standing DUNE I've enjoyed all the various incarnations and adaptations through the years, but each for different reasons - could be the cast, could be the look, could be the music. could be more story and character points included. I've really enjoyed both DUNE PART 1 and PART 2, even if they leave the Spacing Guild and navigators completely out of the mix.

Musically, I've enjoyed much of what Zimmer's scores does in the movies themselves, although I wish there had been more of a sense of triumph in the cues for the climactic battle in PART 2, just so we could feel that triumph of the Fremen over the Harkonnen and the Emperor. On album, I think the PART 1 (and the Sketchbook album) still works best as I found much of the PART 2 album to be too atmospheric or harsh to be consistently engaging. For me, these are the standout tracks:

A Time of Quiet Between the Storms
Harvester Attack
Worm Ride
Ornithopter Attack (neat, quicker paced, action variant of Paul's theme near the end)
Only I Will Remain
Lisan al Gaib

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 11:58 AM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)

I've really enjoyed both DUNE PART 1 and PART 2, even if they leave the Spacing Guild and navigators completely out of the mix.


Speaking as someone who revisited the first novel between the years of Villeneuve's Part 1 and Part 2 films, and am reading Dune Messiah now (audiobook presentations for both), the Guild Navigators are not in the first novel. Herbert supposedly was a bit kerfuffled that Lynch included them in his film adaptation. Assuming Dune Messiah gets made, I look forward to how Villeneuve will depict them as they are integral to that story and Paul's continued path down domination of the Known Universe.

 
 Posted:   Mar 8, 2024 - 12:30 PM   
 By:   Tom Servo   (Member)

I've really enjoyed both DUNE PART 1 and PART 2, even if they leave the Spacing Guild and navigators completely out of the mix.


Speaking as someone who revisited the first novel between the years of Villeneuve's Part 1 and Part 2 films, and am reading Dune Messiah now (audiobook presentations for both), the Guild Navigators are not in the first novel. Herbert supposedly was a bit kerfuffled that Lynch included them in his film adaptation. Assuming Dune Messiah gets made, I look forward to how Villeneuve will depict them as they are integral to that story and Paul's continued path down domination of the Known Universe.


Oh, I appreciate that clarification! That was my memory of blending those first 3 books together!

 
 Posted:   Mar 10, 2024 - 8:36 PM   
 By:   jkruppa   (Member)

I think this score/Film are absolutely brilliant - what are folks whining about!?!

This place is the world's fair of champion whiners. Most folks are stuck in their youth grasping the scores which inspired them to find interest in the first place; some folks can't reconcile with the passing of a dearly beloved composer and interface with the art that was created while wishing endlessly mortality wasn't a reality; and a few people just don't listen to scores and only know how to respond with some copy+paste function as though they are a mindless drone (they are).


You're drawing a lot of conclusions from my one comment. I said I liked most of the score for the first film. This one I didn't care for. I can imagine what this might have sounded like with another composer, just as I can imagine anything in the known universe, and still engage with the film as it is. You needn't denigrate my opinion by characterizing me as some emotionally stunted basement dweller incapable of accepting reality or enjoying new and different work. Maybe just accept that we disagree and move on.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 11, 2024 - 6:03 AM   
 By:   ghost of 82   (Member)

The internet is fast becoming a place to avoid, it's like nobody can accept dissenting voices anymore. I'm beginning to think social media has rewired people's brains, or maybe it was always like this but we didn't have the 'voice' that the internet gives us now.

The Dune music works pretty well in the films, some of its fine outside of them (the sketchbook was interesting, I'd like to hear Zimmer do one for Part Two). But sometimes film music struggles outside of the film it is written for. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with it, after all, it's written for the film and as long as that works, all good.

 
 Posted:   Mar 11, 2024 - 3:12 PM   
 By:   nuts_score   (Member)


You're drawing a lot of conclusions from my one comment. I said I liked most of the score for the first film. This one I didn't care for. I can imagine what this might have sounded like with another composer, just as I can imagine anything in the known universe, and still engage with the film as it is. You needn't denigrate my opinion by characterizing me as some emotionally stunted basement dweller incapable of accepting reality or enjoying new and different work. Maybe just accept that we disagree and move on.


I did accept that and move on long before your response here. As a huge admirer of the composer you are speaking of, I cannot possibly fathom what it would've sounded like from him if he were still with us. Because he was always trying new things and broadening his soundscape and collaborators. Would it have sounded like Last and First Men? Or Mary Magdalene? Or maybe like Mandy? There's no way for me to know but some parts of Zimmer's score for Dune Part 2 seemed influenced by Johansson's doom metal-laden score for Mandy. I liked that. It felt like his influence still lived in the sound of Denis Villeuenve's latest film. And that is all I care about. Is how the music affects me. I meant nothing truly hurtful or negative, just a generalized observation of my years on this board.

I can guarantee you one thing, however, if Johannsson was alive and had scored Villeneuve's Dune adaptation(s), you would see the same people complaining about the sound of the music, it's use in the film, and why it should instead sound like John Williams.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2024 - 3:34 AM   
 By:   ghost of 82   (Member)

Johansson's Dune?!!

Imagine that! With all respect to Zimmer, I expect Johansson's Dune would have been dark, alien, extraordinary. I still hope we'll hear his demos etc for Blade Runner 2049 some day.

 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2024 - 3:47 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

The internet is fast becoming a place to avoid, it's like nobody can accept dissenting voices anymore.

Yet no matter what your opinion is, you will find dissenting voices on the Internet.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 12, 2024 - 4:45 AM   
 By:   ghost of 82   (Member)

The internet is fast becoming a place to avoid, it's like nobody can accept dissenting voices anymore.

Yet no matter what your opinion is, you will find dissenting voices on the Internet.


...and that's a good thing and I welcome constructive and courteous argument, but increasingly people get angry and frustrated and, frankly, rude. This board is nowhere near as bad as some, you can grab a bag of popcorn for some boards and watch some folks going at it for hours trying to get the last word/post.

 
 Posted:   Mar 15, 2024 - 10:42 AM   
 By:   Jason LeBlanc   (Member)

 
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