So strange how Chris Young gets composer of the year even though he did exactly zero 2023 film scores that were released to anyone outside of the IFMCA in the year the awards were covering. Why is he not sharing the award with Loran Alan Davis (sorry), who I am almost positive did the same amount of films released during 2023. Someone check Broxton's porch for a whole mess of free pumpkins.
Also very perplexed about the Avatar game win. The game's score is credited to Pinar Toprak (PAW Patrol: The Mighty Movie), with additional music by Neal Acree and Brian D'Oliveira. The released album is solely credited to Toprak. How does Acree factor into the award win and not D'Oliveira? If all the music that is available to hear was ostensibly Toprak's, why add the additional composers at all?
With the amount of scores and films the IMF had to experience throughout the voting year, no doubt aided by the fact that many of its nominated scores definitely do not exist, I am not sure how the PFJ had the time to sit and group-play the entirety of the Frontiers Of Pandora game to determine whose music was whose and why D'Oliveira's contributions were not substantial enough to be award-worthy, despite him earning the same on-screen credit as co-winner Acree.
Minimal though it *appeared* to be, William Ross was also credited with additional music for Dial Of Destiny and yet he was excluded from the award for the awkwardly-but-accurately-named Score Of The Year That We All Actually Heard Of. Did Williams get the win for Dial Of Destiny all to himself because he played ball with the ASPCA? Did Williams play ball, huh? Did Ross refuse Broxton's luncheon request? Is that what happened with D'Oliveira? What was Bruce Broughton's involvement with getting Acree's name added to the Avatar win, if any?
It wouldn't be IFMCA season without Shaun's opinions! Thanks for sticking with this annual tradition, Shaun!
So strange how Chris Young gets composer of the year even though he did exactly zero 2023 film scores that were released to anyone outside of the IFMCA in the year the awards were covering. Why is he not sharing the award with Loran Alan Davis (sorry), who I am almost positive did the same amount of films released during 2023. Someone check Broxton's porch for a whole mess of free pumpkins.
It doesn't matter if you, yourself Shaun, have experienced the film or score, it matters if WE have. We have, we voted, and the majority thought, based on his output in 2023, that Christopher Young was the best composer of 2023! It's pretty simply, really. And there are many factors at play when we decide who we are going to vote for, and being prolific isn't the only factor.
Also very perplexed about the Avatar game win. The game's score is credited to Pinar Toprak (PAW Patrol: The Mighty Movie), with additional music by Neal Acree and Brian D'Oliveira. The released album is solely credited to Toprak. How does Acree factor into the award win and not D'Oliveira? If all the music that is available to hear was ostensibly Toprak's, why add the additional composers at all?
We looked into this, got answers, and proceeded to give credit based on those answers. We actually do our due diligence.
With the amount of scores and films the IMF had to experience throughout the voting year, no doubt aided by the fact that many of its nominated scores definitely do not exist, I am not sure how the PFJ had the time to sit and group-play the entirety of the Frontiers Of Pandora game to determine whose music was whose and why D'Oliveira's contributions were not substantial enough to be award-worthy, despite him earning the same on-screen credit as co-winner Acree.
Which scores "definitely do not exist"?
Again, I answered your question above. Also, many of us don't play video games, but we do have access to game play footage, so we can watch that, just like we do with any movie or TV show, and experience the score in context. It's not that difficult.
Minimal though it *appeared* to be, William Ross was also credited with additional music for Dial Of Destiny and yet he was excluded from the award for the awkwardly-but-accurately-named Score Of The Year That We All Actually Heard Of. Did Williams get the win for Dial Of Destiny all to himself because he played ball with the ASPCA? Did Williams play ball, huh? Did Ross refuse Broxton's luncheon request? Is that what happened with D'Oliveira? What was Bruce Broughton's involvement with getting Acree's name added to the Avatar win, if any?
We don't include additional composers. We never have unless someone asks us to. I mean, do you know how long the list would be for most Hans Zimmer scores? We go by what's on the front cover of the album or who gets the main credit in the film. We'd love to include everyone, but once we start including additional composers, then we have to add orchestrators, copyists, music editors, and the entire orchestra that played the score. It's just not going to happen.
BTW, your snark is nowhere near as funny as you think it is in your head.
We don't include additional composers. We never have unless someone asks us to. I mean, do you know how long the list would be for most Hans Zimmer scores? We go by what's on the front cover of the album or who gets the main credit in the film. We'd love to include everyone, but once we start including additional composers, then we have to add orchestrators, copyists, music editors, and the entire orchestra that played the score. It's just not going to happen.
-Erik-
If that's true, why was Acree a co-winner and D'Oliveira left out? Both were credited in the Avatar game itself, but neither were credited on the front cover of the actual soundtrack release. Did Acree ask and D'Oliveira not ask? Who would D'Oliveira have needed to ask? Did Toprak ask for Acree to be included with her nomination because he actually collaborated and her and D'Oliveira didn't?
I guess I don't actually care beyond needling you and Broxton about the shady underworld of this well-meaning organization, I just noticed Acree's name and didn't know they had been an additional composer (because their name was not on the released album). I would think that including all three of the credited composers would be the fair thing to do. That, or just leaving Toprak as the sole winner and giving Acree a consolation Thalberg someday.
This was actually a topic of some discussion over the past month or so; we did not make the decision about who to credit lightly. In a semi-recent game patch, Acree's onscreen game credit got upgraded to being a primary composer alongside Toprak, while D'Oliveira remained credited for "additional music". According to Acree, he was supposed to be listed as a main composer on the original game release but it took some time to update his credit for whatever reason. Additionally, Acree's team was able to supply the IFMCA with an album of his music (19 cues, almost an hour long) for us to judge in addition to Toprak's album which has already been commercially released. (None of the music on that album is Acree's.)
We did request something similar from D'Oliveira (even though his credit remains "additional music" in the new patch) but his people were unable to supply one. Furthermore, there are actually quite a few other "additional music" composers on the project besides D'Oliveira and trying to accommodate all of them would have gotten really awkward and impractical. So after some discussion we made a decision to limit the nomination and award to the two lead composers only. I hope now that you have a more detailed explanation, our decision meets with your approval.
Nothing against D'Oliveira (I like his score for the animated Witcher thing on Spotify).
I guess I don't actually care beyond needling you and Broxton about the shady underworld of this well-meaning organization.
I just wish I could figure out why you keep doing it. At this point it just feels shitty and mean. And I'm pretty sure I've met you. If you're who I think I remember, I don't remember you being either of those things.
So strange how Chris Young gets composer of the year even though he did exactly zero 2023 film scores that were released to anyone outside of the IFMCA in the year the awards were covering.
You're just plain wrong about this. The Piper was released in Spain. Plenty of people experienced it in film context, in Spain -- including some IFMCA members. Yes, other IFMCA members were out of luck in terms of being able to judge the score in film context, but we did have a fantastic album mockup to judge. Any IFMCA members who felt uncomfortable voting based just on that were under no obligation to do so. Original release date is what matters for the International Film Music Critics Association -- yes, it is supposed to get a US release sometime later in 2024, but some films don't even get released outside their home country at all.
As for Nosferatu, plenty of people attended its premiere last year -- including some folks on this very board as I recall! And over 10 minutes of the score were released to the general public back in November 2023:
This is magnum opus level writing, Shaun, and it shouldn't be disqualified from awards consideration just because a lot of people haven't been able to hear the whole thing yet.
With the amount of scores and films the IMF had to experience throughout the voting year, no doubt aided by the fact that many of its nominated scores definitely do not exist
Yeah I'll have to echo Erik here: what on earth are you talking about? Of course every nominated score exists; what on earth do you think we are listening to before we vote for things?
Minimal though it *appeared* to be, William Ross was also credited with additional music for Dial Of Destiny and yet he was excluded from the award for the awkwardly-but-accurately-named Score Of The Year That We All Actually Heard Of.
Ross was credited for exactly ONE cue of additional music for Dial of Destiny: "Pulse of the City". I know there's speculation that he was responsible for arranging some other pre-existing Williams music for other parts but it's really weird you think he should be included alongside Williams as the (or even a) primary author of the score. I think that would be insulting to Williams and not something Ross would even want.
I have nothing to add about these selections because I've not heard many of the nominated scores.
So why am I here? I just want to say how THRILLED I am to see the names BROXTON and SOUTHALL in two of our threads. May these names appear continuously in the future!
This was actually a topic of some discussion over the past month or so; we did not make the decision about who to credit lightly. In a semi-recent game patch, Acree's onscreen game credit got upgraded to being a primary composer alongside Toprak, while D'Oliveira remained credited for "additional music". According to Acree, he was supposed to be listed as a main composer on the original game release but it took some time to update his credit for whatever reason. Additionally, Acree's team was able to supply the IFMCA with an album of his music (19 cues, almost an hour long) for us to judge in addition to Toprak's album which has already been commercially released. (None of the music on that album is Acree's.)
If Acree actually was awarded primary composer credit for the Avatar game score via a contract dispute and later update of the game, that's news to me (was this reported somewhere that I missed?). Good for him, I guess, though bad for the female composer (yet again) and the D'Oliveira guy (who is not related to me at all and you will not see us announcing some weird relationship on Instagram in the coming months).
Is that patch something the IFMCA confirmed or what you were told by Acree and his team? I have no stake in this at all, I was just confused by seeing the second composer's name on the award when the album Ubisoft put out was just by Toprak, so it led to this Woodward & Bernstein rabbit hole. Is Acree's score going to come out from Ubisoft as well, I wonder.
You're just plain wrong about this. The Piper was released in Spain. Plenty of people experienced it in film context, in Spain -- including some IFMCA members. Yes, other IFMCA members were out of luck in terms of being able to judge the score in film context, but we did have a fantastic album mockup to judge. Any IFMCA members who felt uncomfortable voting based just on that were under no obligation to do so. Original release date is what matters for the International Film Music Critics Association -- yes, it is supposed to get a US release sometime later in 2024, but some films don't even get released outside their home country at all.
As for Nosferatu, plenty of people attended its premiere last year -- including some folks on this very board as I recall! And over 10 minutes of the score were released to the general public back in November 2023.
This is magnum opus level writing, Shaun, and it shouldn't be disqualified from awards consideration just because a lot of people haven't been able to hear the whole thing yet.
It's nothing against the quality of the music, it's just that only 10 minutes of the music was even available for consideration. When the full recording comes out this year via the Kickstarter, will that be eligible for the Best Archival Release? Kind of a Black Pumas/Grammy situation there, if so.
With the amount of scores and films the IMF had to experience throughout the voting year, no doubt aided by the fact that many of its nominated scores definitely do not exist
Yeah I'll have to echo Erik here: what on earth are you talking about? Of course every nominated score exists; what on earth do you think we are listening to before we vote for things?
I'm just joking around. Most of us aren't members of the IFMCA's file sharing network and have no idea what some of those movies and composers even are, so to some of us, it feels like the IFMCA is just a cool kids table voting on scores that only you and people walking by a random villa in Spain will ever get to experience.
Minimal though it *appeared* to be, William Ross was also credited with additional music for Dial Of Destiny and yet he was excluded from the award for the awkwardly-but-accurately-named Score Of The Year That We All Actually Heard Of.
Ross was credited for exactly ONE cue of additional music for Dial of Destiny: "Pulse of the City". I know there's speculation that he was responsible for arranging some other pre-existing Williams music for other parts but it's really weird you think he should be included alongside Williams as the (or even a) primary author of the score. I think that would be insulting to Williams and not something Ross would even want.
Just an example off the top of my head. The Balfe scores would be better examples, I realize, but who can keep up with his output to know facts about them? Yet another reason why I am not a member of this club.
All that having been said, I am warming to the idea of the IFMCA after many, many years of ridiculing the need for its existence (you don't have to like my opinion). I still think that there aren't enough good scores in specific categories anymore to justify having 5 nominees. Also, if a movie has only screened one time against some wall in Italy and the score has not been commercially released, I feel like that kind of thing has to go from the shortlist. I would imagine that you don't get that many quality listens of 99% of the scores you are voting on by opening up voting to every note composed within the calendar year. You can do a Red Canvas Honorary Award for that kind of score, if anything at all.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Helena's Theme is good.
