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 Posted:   Jul 2, 2024 - 5:49 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I didn’t realize (or forgot) that Matt Dunkley was based in the UK, not LA. So yeah recording in LA would only save on Gloria Cheng’s transportation and lodging, not his.

Bruce originally suggested LA because apparently there are special rates you can get if it’s a small recording like The Dresser. No doubt still more expensive than Prague, for the recording costs.

Yavar

 
 Posted:   Jul 2, 2024 - 10:52 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Orchestrator_ mentions the apparant lack of trust in Perserverence Records for mistakes of the past. I understand that it must be frustrating to keep reading feedback about how to better organize your campaign, when you put your best effort into it. That must be hard to deal with. In the Netherlands we have a saying: "trust comes by foot and leaves by horse". Meaning that trust takes a lot of time to build and is difficult to restore once broken. That's hard work.

I like that saying. It reminds me of an exchange in Jane Austen's Pride & Prejudice between Darcy and Elizabeth: In their most frank exchange in the novel, he explains, "My good opinion once lost is lost forever." and she answers, "That is a failing indeed. But...I really cannot laugh at it."

I appreciate that you demonstrate empathy for Perseverance even while struggling to to overcome your own doubts/concerns about them. I think people deserve second (and sometimes even third) chances and I try to give them that. I wish I knew what could be done to convince folks like you who are enthusiastic about the idea of newly recording lost early Horner scores, but have doubts about Perseverance. You seem to acknowledge that trust *can* be restored once broken, so do you have any ideas as to how that might be accomplished?

I myself trust that Perseverance will deliver if they meet their goal. I just think there are things they haven't been willing to try yet, to make that goal lower and therefore more achievable, which is my primary concern. And IMO if you're offering people a score which would have made up less than a third the length of the previously proposed album (setting aside even the dramatic difference in ensemble size), then the base pledge tiers should be lowered by more like half rather than lowered by $5 as Robin proposed. But maybe I'm wrong and the hardcore Horner fans will still stick around as I plan to do.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 2, 2024 - 2:27 PM   
 By:   Orchestrator_   (Member)

@Yavar

Maybe if you stop creating doubt with repetitive passive aggressive posts like " I myself trust that Perseverance will deliver if they meet their goal. I just think there are things they haven't been willing to try yet, to make that goal lower and therefore more achievable, which is my primary concern." and patronizing ones like "base pledge tiers should be lowered by more like half rather than lowered by $5 as Robin proposed. But maybe I'm wrong and the hardcore Horner fans will still stick around as I plan to do."

And actually, support this campaign, in the same enthusiastic way you support others, that could be a start!

Especially, when every 'concern' you keep writing about has been addressed in detail.

Otherwise, I personally invite you to drop everything your currently do, and instead of posting endlessly:

1. take over the campaign planning. You will get paid for this, or maybe you're willing to offer your expertise for free, to make that goal lower and therefore more achievable? It is your primary concern, after all!
2. deal with each one of the professionals involved (availability, fees, schedule, accommodation, etc.)
3. put together the reward tiers, add-ons.
4. find the PERFECT balance tier/price wise, without risking going over budget and have people complaining about it, like you do, and at the same time keep costs at a reasonable level.
5. book the ideal amount of sessions required with the right players, meaning that you will be responsible and held accountable – as with everything else – in case a session, based on your experience through comparing projects, runs over, therefore another one must be booked, which might not be available on the very day you need it, hence, you will have to book the next available session whenever that may be, causing massive project delays, and thousands of $ in additional costs.
6. Promote & Run the actual campaign for 30 days, which as previously mentioned from others, it is kind of a full-time job.
7. Deal with passive-aggressive, patronizing, and authoritative people who criticize your decisions and work on the project, every step of the way, creating doubt and causing concerns, offering their expert advice by comparing projects on paper.


Having said that, I hope that people, who are here to actually support endeavors such as this, will realize and appreciate the amount of work done to put this project together, the passion, and dedication to make it happen, and support it.

See you at the finish line.

 
 Posted:   Jul 2, 2024 - 3:55 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I don't think I'm the reason anyone is doubting this campaign, and I'll leave it at that. Will refrain from further responses in this thread as you've requested, and I honestly do wish you the best with this third attempt despite your somewhat hostile recent response. I can appreciate your general frustration and touchiness on this subject.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 2, 2024 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   Orchestrator_   (Member)

You certainly aren't helping towards a positive outcome, even though everyone knows you can if you want to, and I'll leave it at that!

No hostility, whatsoever! Just a reply to your "I wish I knew what could be done to convince folks..." question, and a counter-offer, to provide your expertise on the subject!

"Will refrain from further responses in this thread as you've requested..." This is your response to my message.

This is what I actually wrote: "Maybe if you stop creating doubt with repetitive passive aggressive posts like... And actually, support this campaign, in the same enthusiastic way you support others, that could be a start!"

And I'll leave it at that!

Thank you kindly for your wishes! We will indeed try our best to see this project through!

 
 Posted:   Jul 2, 2024 - 9:57 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

If Robin follows my advice to have a $20 or lower (shipped) CD tier instead of his proposed $25, or to somehow cut costs further (maybe opting for stretch goals to cover the involvement of your preferred conductor and pianist) so that the goal can be under $20,000… then yeah, I think I will have had a positive effect on the coming campaign with what I’ve written.

If you’re referring to my doing that video podcast for Intrada’s Abbott and Costello campaign, I guess I’ll lay all my cards on the table: that wasn’t my idea! 10 days ago I had no clue I’d be doing that. Roger Feigelson of Intrada wrote me out of the blue and asked if there was any chance I might consider recording a podcast for them. To be honest, I hesitated for a couple of days. My podcast is Goldsmith-centric and to be perfectly frank (ha), I love Frank Skinner but Abbott and Costello Meet Frankenstein wouldn’t be the highest priority for me (I’d go for Saboteur before that in an instant). I’m actually much more interested in getting new recordings of early Horner scores, in terms of my preferences. (Of course I’m even more interested in Intrada’s top 4 vote winners from their last Kickstarter poll — The Chairman, The Jungle Book, Night of the Hunter, The Waltons — and I was honestly a bit bummed that one of those wasn’t selected.)

But,
1) Roger reached out asking me nicely to do this favor, without any sense of expectation or entitlement (or sarcasm),
2) John Morgan is one of my oldest friends and I know how important this score is to him, and
3) since thanks to John I was familiar with the film and score, it took me only an hour to prep and another to record, so I was able to fit it into my work schedule.

Also very importantly, I told Roger that the biggest issue was editing it, because the Goldsmith Odyssey editors have their hands full. So Roger asked Joe Sikoryak to do the great favor of editing the video quickly on short notice.

I might consider doing something similar for The Dresser if asked nicely, but I don’t actually know the film so would have to take time to watch it and familiarize myself, already more of a time commitment.

If I were to go all-out in terms of pro-bono work on a film music Kickstarter though, it would be for a Goldsmith project (or for one of my favorite film scores of all time, like Roy Webb’s Sinbad the Sailor or Alfred Newman’s Captain from Castile — I would do so much free work for those campaigns you have no idea). And I likely *would* run my own campaigns under The Goldsmith Odyssey banner (not work for somebody else’s) if for some reason Leigh Phillips ever decided to permanently stop running his own Goldsmith campaigns (which yes, we substantially spur and assist on).

Okay, peace. Robin asked for thoughts and feedback on his proposal, and I provided more than enough. Stepping back from participating in this thread now, and I’ll be ready with my credit card again to support Round 3.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 3, 2024 - 9:46 AM   
 By:   Chris Hadley   (Member)

I wonder if VOLUNTEERS would have been a better choice, simply because it's a straight orchestral score (no complex, difficult to replicate sound design as with THE HAND), and because the score itself is about 30 minutes long (not counting any possible alternates). Then again since it would involve a far larger orchestra than either of the two scores picked out for the Kickstarter, it would have cost more to do this one. Just my 2 cents.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 3, 2024 - 9:50 AM   
 By:   Roy Donga   (Member)

I wonder if VOLUNTEERS would have been a better choice, simply because it's a straight orchestral score (no complex, difficult to replicate sound design as with THE HAND), and because the score itself is about 30 minutes long (not counting any possible alternates). Then again since it would involve a far larger orchestra than either of the two scores picked out for the Kickstarter, it would have cost more to do this one. Just my 2 cents.
It was said somewhere on this board years ago that the tapes exist but it’s not been possible to get the rights sorted

 
 Posted:   Jul 3, 2024 - 10:11 AM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

I think it was copied onto this board, but was originally Roger Feigelson talking about it on the Intrada board (still active at the time). I know it's a favorite of his and he's been trying for over a decade to make it happen and even managed to confirm the existence of tapes, but alas it doesn't seem like it's going to any time soon. I think Volunteers is owned by HBO so in the same boat as that prospective box set of From the Earth to the Moon so many of us want (no dice).

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 3, 2024 - 7:19 PM   
 By:   jwb1   (Member)

Just adding my opinion to this and seeing that Chris Young’s Nosferatu barely made its goal and Intrada’s Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein has yet to reach 50% with about 2 weeks left I think ambitions would have to be considerably scaled down to make it happen.


Many people wait till its close to the end to back a project. Abbott & Costello will be fully funded. It would be shocking if it didn't.

I don't think I'm the reason anyone is doubting this campaign, and I'll leave it at that.

Yavar


You aren't. I don't think Orchestrator is doing a good job convincing people on the fence.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 3, 2024 - 8:37 PM   
 By:   TJ   (Member)

Just adding my opinion to this and seeing that Chris Young’s Nosferatu barely made its goal and Intrada’s Abbott & Costello Meet Frankenstein has yet to reach 50% with about 2 weeks left I think ambitions would have to be considerably scaled down to make it happen.


Many people wait till its close to the end to back a project. Abbott & Costello will be fully funded. It would be shocking if it didn't.




I wonder why people wait until the end. They aren't going to get charged until the end.

 
 Posted:   Jul 3, 2024 - 10:58 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I wonder why people wait until the end. They aren't going to get charged until the end.

I would guess they're wondering whether they have to contribute at all. If the Kickstarter funds without them, they can hold onto their money until the CD is actually offered for sale. (Or choose not to at all.)

Also, in the case with the Intrada Herrmann two-fer, I contributed up-front, but was very eager for that project to come to fruition. So if it looked like it was hanging in the balance with time running out, I would likely have contributed more than I needed to.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 5, 2024 - 6:17 AM   
 By:   haineshisway   (Member)

@Yavar

Maybe if you stop creating doubt with repetitive passive aggressive posts like " I myself trust that Perseverance will deliver if they meet their goal. I just think there are things they haven't been willing to try yet, to make that goal lower and therefore more achievable, which is my primary concern." and patronizing ones like "base pledge tiers should be lowered by more like half rather than lowered by $5 as Robin proposed. But maybe I'm wrong and the hardcore Horner fans will still stick around as I plan to do."

And actually, support this campaign, in the same enthusiastic way you support others, that could be a start!

Especially, when every 'concern' you keep writing about has been addressed in detail.

Otherwise, I personally invite you to drop everything your currently do, and instead of posting endlessly:

1. take over the campaign planning. You will get paid for this, or maybe you're willing to offer your expertise for free, to make that goal lower and therefore more achievable? It is your primary concern, after all!
2. deal with each one of the professionals involved (availability, fees, schedule, accommodation, etc.)
3. put together the reward tiers, add-ons.
4. find the PERFECT balance tier/price wise, without risking going over budget and have people complaining about it, like you do, and at the same time keep costs at a reasonable level.
5. book the ideal amount of sessions required with the right players, meaning that you will be responsible and held accountable – as with everything else – in case a session, based on your experience through comparing projects, runs over, therefore another one must be booked, which might not be available on the very day you need it, hence, you will have to book the next available session whenever that may be, causing massive project delays, and thousands of $ in additional costs.
6. Promote & Run the actual campaign for 30 days, which as previously mentioned from others, it is kind of a full-time job.
7. Deal with passive-aggressive, patronizing, and authoritative people who criticize your decisions and work on the project, every step of the way, creating doubt and causing concerns, offering their expert advice by comparing projects on paper.


Having said that, I hope that people, who are here to actually support endeavors such as this, will realize and appreciate the amount of work done to put this project together, the passion, and dedication to make it happen, and support it.

See you at the finish line.


If he's being passive/aggressive (and others unnamed are, as well) what should what you're doing be called? You're not gonna win this game this way. You've failed at the finish line twice and, as you know, not insignificantly. But let's address point six: I'm the one who said it's a full-time job - I didn't say "kind of a full time job" I said "a full time job." And being a full time job, what you don't do, which you did, is disappear completely during the final four or five days of the campaign, which are the most critical.

You obviously cannot follow the Intrada way. They have a number of cheerleaders they can count on and, for whatever reasons, they want others to do the work for them and that's worked for them and all the more power to them. I would not have funded one of the twelve campaigns I've done had I done that. I don't know if they'll fund the current thing or not - I haven't even glanced at that campaign because, frankly, there are too many of these things at the moment, which is why I have not gone ahead with the one we've been thinking about for two years now, a major score that would be a huge, major undertaking that would be much more complicated than what you're doing and cost nowhere near what your first compaign was trying to raise, or, for that matter, what your second campaign was trying to raise. I priced everything out using the RSNO and everyone's fees and you just have to trust me when I tell you - way more complicated.

Back to point six. If at any point, during any of my comments (more on the first campaign, much less on the second because I knew it was not going to succeed after day three), Robin or you had actually reached out to me, I would have been happy to at least offer some advice to you that may have been helpful. I would have done this gratis. I have helped others do campaigns who were failing. One gal, trying to fund a short film, had raised about two percent of her goal at the end of week one. I told her there was no way she would ever fund but I said I'd help her if she wanted the help, but she had to do exactly what I told her for the next three weeks. She agreed. She did exactly what I asked her to do for three weeks solid - she not only funded, she exceeded her goal and covered the fees.

Them's my two centimes.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 6, 2024 - 12:04 AM   
 By:   BrenKel   (Member)

This is all very sad. Definitely felt full of hope when I discovered that my favourite composer would feature in a Kickstarter campaign I could support.

The whole thing feels like a complete mess now. Absolutely gutted.

 
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