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Good, I am looking forward to it as I prefer CD over download.
Any folks in this boat who are just discovering these eight Goldsmith gems after receiving their Intrada CD… what do you think? What scores are your favorites out of the bunch?
Yavar
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You can hear a cue (maybe even two? I forget) from Fred Steiner's score as a MIDI mockup from friend of the show Carson Cohen, in this first Goldsmith Odyssey Production Report podcast on Leigh's GE Theater series (sorry, we didn't do a tracklist for this one and I don't recall the timestamp... but we play an entire cue or two):
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/10957890-production-report-the-bar-mitzvah-of-major-orlovsky-sarah-s-laughter-2022-leigh-phillips-recording
It's not bad music at all! But one can tell why it was replaced by the Goldsmith -- it's more surface-level.
Maybe someday if the Universal TV vaults are scoured, the original recording of these might turn up and we could hear the Steiner score as recorded... it's certainly a longshot (was it even recorded?) but it would be nice to hear the whole thing with a real orchestra. I don't think anyone is going to produce a new recording of it, though.
While I'm at it I may as well share the other three podcasts we did with Leigh Phillips about these new Goldsmith @ GE Theater recordings:
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/12559309-production-report-the-legend-that-walks-like-a-man-hitler-s-secret-2023-leigh-phillips-recording
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/13692226-production-report-the-last-dance-2023-leigh-phillips-recording
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/14657499-production-report-the-committeeman-my-dark-days-autumn-love-2023-leigh-phillips-recordings
These offer a great deal of insight into not only the scores, but what is involved in producing new recordings of them. The podcast on "The Last Dance", since we had more time given it was just a single score, is particularly in-depth on the recording session process itself. Happy listening, and please share any reactions you may have!
Yavar
P.S. Thanks Graham and MotoMan for weighing in on the new Intrada CD! Graham, I'd love to know which scores stuck out to you as favorites, whenever you get a round tuit! I look forward to a lengthy rabbit... perhaps of the hare variety.
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You're quite welcome chriss! I'm curious what you think after listening, and whether you agree with my assessment based on the available sample of Steiner's score.
Just a twinge of a rabbit abortion so far. The mention of Fred Steiner reminded me that on hearing "Hitler's Secret", some of it reminded me of the powerful, lumbering music that Steiner wrote for "Star Trek". It also shares something with Goldsmith's own "Thriller" score ("Well of Doom"), the lumbering music for Richard Kiel, although I feel that was probably Herrmann-inspired. So much great stuff on this CD.
I definitely hear some Herrmann influence in both "Hitler's Secret" and "Well of Doom". They are both DARK and brass-heavy scores, with kind of a relentless, inexorable drive forward. An electric sense of menace and, well... doom. I confess I like "Hitler's Secret" best out of those two over all. Which is kind of remarkable since on album we have a highlights suite from "Well of Doom"... but "Hitler's Secret" shines in complete form, IMO.
I'm hearing a "different" Jerry Goldsmith on this disc than on ones featuring his later works.
He was always changing and developing, which is part of why he's my favorite composer. I do hear a decent amount of links to this 60s output. But near the end of the disc, check out that main motif from "Autumn Love" -- do you hear Rambo III in it, as I do? 
There are inevitably many points in common throughout his entire career, but the lilting, long-lined emotional themes which crop up here seem to have been driving towards A PATCH OF BLUE in 1965. Thereafter I think he shifted to a slightly different melodic structure for many projects.
That's interesting -- how so?
Yavar
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Posted: |
Aug 24, 2024 - 7:45 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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Right, I've given this a few spins and I'll be giving it a good few more. It's excellent. I'm so glad that these scores have been preserved for us to hear (for the first time in most cases). Sterling work from the team behind it!.
"Hitler's Secret" is good, but when it's over I always kind of think, "Is that it?", as if it had slid away from me without having made a big impression. Love the chimes and bells on that one though. Very dark, like Thriller's "Well of Doom".
"The Last Dance" and "Sarah's Laughter" are amongst my favourites. Melodically they're cut from the same cloth, although the latter has different instrumentation. Really beautiful stuff.
"The Commiteeman" is resistable. I'm not a great fan of mandolin and accordeon scores, but it has its moments and certainly shows JG's versatility, even 63 years ago.
"The Legend That Walks Like a Man" has a little bit too much burlesque buffoonery in it for my liking. It's sort of similar to the Thriller score "Yours Truly, Jack the Ripper", which I never cared for much, but which was apparently the one that the orchestra got most fun out of. I think that this one will grow on me, but I need to find a less grumpy, more benevolent personal moment for that to happen.
I'd rate "My Dark Days" similarly to "Hitler's Secret". Once it's over I kind of forget what I've just heard. Probably a slow burner. I'll end up really liking it.
No such problems with "The Bar Mitvah of Major Orlovsky". This might be the most "direct" score in the set. I immediately loved it. It looks forward to such great scores as QB VII. I love contrapuntal writing, and this one has some great violin - cello (?) interactions.
"Autumn Love" is simply gorgeous. There's a kind of "uncharacteristic-for-Goldsmith" languidness about it which reminds me of, oh I don't know, autumn love?
I mentioned in a previous post that these scores are a revelation for me, because I think I can hear a different Goldsmith here than in his (say) post-1965 work. I said earlier that the tender writing especially seemed to be building up to A PATCH OF BLUE, only because that's one of his most celebrated earlyish scores and one which has much in common with the melodic treatments in this set. I'm not good at explaining how so, but there seems to be a different way forward in those pre-1965 scores. They're almost... unpredictable. Sometimes they don't even seem to resolve, but I mean that in a good way.
Yavar says that he hears RAMBO III in "Autumn Love". Me too, but isn't it just two open fifths, something that Goldsmith relied on many times before and after RAMBO III?
None of these scores are duds. I'm not giving any of them a fail. From best to "least good", I'd go something like this -
Autumn Love
The Bar Mitzvah of Major Orlovsky
The Last Dance
Sarah's Laughter
My Dark Days
Hitler's Secret
The Legend That Walks Like a Man
The Commiteeman
And a total 100% out of 100% for Leigh Phillips and The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra. Recording and performance-wise, this might be my favourite so far.
----------------------------------------- (R.I.P. Douglass Fake) ----------------------------------------------------------
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I do think "Hitler's Secret" and "My Dark Days" will grow on you. They are both very dark and not exactly tuneful most of the time. "My Dark Days" actually did take *years* to grow on me, to be honest. When I first heard it within episode context, it did little for me outside the End Credits cue. Speaking of End Credits, I think that the one for Hitler's Secret is particularly strong and even thrilling, so I'm surprised that the last impression it leaves with you is, "Is that it?" ... but I understand it better if I realize that my own reaction at the end is, "Could we have some more, please?" I guess that's the nature of scoring less than half an hour of footage... even when including every single cue, these scores are over quite soon after they start!
I'm with you in "The Committeeman" being at the bottom of the heap for me, though it's still good. Some very heartfelt music that sounds very Jerry to me. "The Legend That Walks Like a Man" fits the episode it was written for... probably the highlight for me is "Image of Desire", which is almost Herrmannesque in its loveliness IMO.
My favorites are "The Last Dance", "Autumn Love" (tho not GE Theater, of course), and most of all "The Bar Mitzvah of Major Orlovsky" -- it was such a revelation to discover that last score, years ago, because as you say it looks forward so much to later Jewish-themed masterpieces like QBVII which were more than a decade away.
By the way, you'll probably also enjoy "Summer Love" from Jerry's (which hasn't yet been newly recorded...hopefully a future bonus cue):
https://youtu.be/E_Ch0O0JAJw?si=N7qK0cBn3oA1m5ie&t=153
(Go with the timestamp I provided to avoid repetition in this YouTube video. The full cue is just a couple of minutes and it apparently isn't a full set like "Autumn Love" despite being similar in sound.)
I mentioned in a previous post that these scores are a revelation for me, because I think I can hear a different Goldsmith here than in his (say) post-1965 work. I said earlier that the tender writing especially seemed to be building up to A PATCH OF BLUE, only because that's one of his most celebrated earlyish scores and one which has much in common with the melodic treatments in this set. I'm not good at explaining how so, but there seems to be a different way forward in those pre-1965 scores. They're almost... unpredictable. Sometimes they don't even seem to resolve, but I mean that in a good way.
Goldsmith's unpredictability is one of my favorite things about this music (a quality I think he shares with Shostakovich). I think he kept it to some degree throughout his career but I will confess I think it was more common during his first couple decades of output.
Yavar says that he hears RAMBO III in "Autumn Love". Me too, but isn't it just two open fifths, something that Goldsmith relied on many times before and after RAMBO III?
Why yes it is... but can you think of any other specific examples that are like these particular four notes?
And a total 100% out of 100% for Leigh Phillips and The City of Prague Philharmonic Orchestra. Recording and performance-wise, this might be my favourite so far.
----------------------------------------- (R.I.P. Douglass Fake) ----------------------------------------------------------
It's bittersweet for me that this was one of the last Intrada CDs released before Doug passed away. So it's your favorite City of Prague Philharmonic album that you've heard?
Yavar
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I really enjoyed the "burlesque buffoonery" of "The Legend That Walks Like a Man" today. It's kind of maddening, but I was in the right mood. There are some touched there that put me in mind of much later scores such as the cheerful bits in MATINEE.
I'm glad it grew on you Graham! I will admit my favorite cue in that score by far is the lovely Herrmannesque "Image of Desire" for the romantic scene between Borgnine and Zsa Zsa Gabor.
Both "Hitler's Secret" and - especially - "My Dark Days" really took form today. I'm really enjoying getting to know this set better. It doesn't put all its cards on the table at the beginning, so it's worthwhile taking the time to have it on repeat.
They took form...into nougat? Please share more about your experience of how these grew on you.
"Summer Love" is beautiful. It could so easily fit in with "Autumn Love". Is it only the one cue?
Alas, yes, it seems to be just the one lengthier cue. And nothing I've been able to find over the years regarding a "Winter Love" or "Spring Love"... still, the two seasons we do have do sound musically related, don't they? Even if "Summer Love" doesn't have the same thematic base. Maybe one day we can include it as a bonus cue on a future album.
As regards the two bars of open fifths... I was going to say DAMNATION ALLEY, but that's not the one. Not so easy now you've put me on the spot. Maybe some of the action writing in TOTAL RECALL? I was sure he'd done this on multiple occasions... now I'm not so sure.
If you think of something else, lemme know! Of course I know Goldsmith liked to do fifths a lot, like his Klingon motif. But I don't hear anything else that's as good of a four-note match for (two themes in) Rambo III than the main theme of "Autumn Love".
I think this might be the best-PERFORMED album I've heard from the Prague Orch. I must admit I haven't got many, but in most cases I've had "minor" (some would say anal) issues with slow tempi, "wrong" notes etc. I haven't found ANYTHING wrong with this one. Yet!
Leigh really is a perfectionist! I'm glad you're enjoying it so much without reservations.
Yavar
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My experience with "The Legend That Walks Like a Man" was similar... the "oompah-oompah" brass is probably what's bringing to mind circus music for you, and maybe that's even intentional on Goldsmith's part -- some kind of musical commentary that Hollywood itself is a bit of a circus? Hey, in case you're interested and can spare the time, we have a shorter-than-usual podcast episode (actually two, with a short addendum one) all about that score and episode... recorded years before this new album:
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/3370174-episode-25-the-legend-that-walks-like-a-man-general-electric-theater-1961
https://goldsmithodyssey.buzzsprout.com/159614/3568282-gold-shavings-the-inside-scoop-on-episode-25
It is funny how early favorites can wear out their welcome over time (I still love "Bar Mitzvah" best, but I understand the phenomenon). I'll be honest and say that I rarely feel like listening to Mulan any more, and it used to be one of my top 10 Goldsmith scores for many years. I've gravitated much more towards stuff like Breakout and High Velocity, which aren't usually talked about by folks. But I guess for me they have a quality similar to "Hitler's Secret" or "My Dark Days" (the latter of which I actually DID initially find dull/boring!) in this set... they didn't reveal their more subtle treasures right away, but grew on me more and more, the more I listened to them.
Yavar
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