The great setpiece in Kevin Costner's 1990 epic DANCES WITH WOLVES is the buffalo hunt sequence. The scene was originally scored by John Barry with a sort of delightful "cowboy" version of the John Dunbar Theme, as it appeared on the Sony OST album, while the film instead features a re-score upon Costner's request with a more overtly "Hollywood western" approach (orchestrated by Mark McKenzie) that doesn't reference at all the main theme.
I remember that when I saw the original theatrical version of the film here in Italy, the buffalo hunt scene had the original cue instead of the re-score. In fact, for many years I couldn't understand the talk among fans on old FSM print issues about the so-called "film version" of the cue, because what I was hearing on the albumc was the same as I heard in the film. This same version was broadcasted on Italian national television in 1993 and here you can watch the scene with the original cue mixed in:
A Director's Cut of the film was released in theaters, but in this version the rescored buffalo hunt cue was reinstated. This appeared also on all subsequent home video releases of the film, as you can see in this clip extracted from the Italian Blu-ray:
Anyone knows if this happened also in the original versions of other European countries? It would be interesting to know the origin of this alternate version.
Though I love the Dances With Wolves score, "The Buffalo Hunt" cues are not my favorites. The first version (original album) has a sort of lockstep rhythm that comes across as martial, which is a rare dramatic misstep by the composer. The second version (film) injects that spirited but too on-the-nose western riff that also sounds out of place--too chipper; I don't think Barry's heart was in this rewrite.
The Buffalo Hunt sequence was rescored long before the film was in theatres.
I thought the basic reason is that the film was re-edited to lengthen that sequence and the original music was too short, plus Costner wanted something that was more traditionally western.
If you saw a version with the original music in that scene, then you must have either seen a pre-release edit, which is hard to believe would be leaked to Italian theatres, or the dub was done incorrectly, in which case you should also remember sitting in your seat wondering why the music finished half-way through the sequence.
Of course, I wasn't there with you so I can't vouch for what you did or did not see, and stranger things have happened, but I do know that no release versions should have had that music.
To be honest, unless there's any documentary evidence to back it up, I'm most inclined to believe it's a case of Mandela Effect.
If you saw a version with the original music in that scene, then you must have either seen a pre-release edit, which is hard to believe would be leaked to Italian theatres, or the dub was done incorrectly, in which case you should also remember sitting in your seat wondering why the music finished half-way through the sequence.
Of course, I wasn't there with you so I can't vouch for what you did or did not see, and stranger things have happened, but I do know that no release versions should have had that music.
Watch the Facebook video I linked in the original post. It's a VHS recording of the premiere Italian television broadcast (RAI 1) of the 1990 theatrical version and it aligns with what was released in theaters.
The film was released here in theaters in December 14, 1990, so less than a month from the original US theatrical release. Back then, the concept of "day-and-date" worldwide release didn't exist yet and international versions needed at least two or three months of work for dubbing, localising and mixing (which often was done locally as well, while nowadays everything is sent back to the US for the final mix of all international versions). What likely happened here is that the mixers worked with a temporary M&E mix which still included the original cue laid out, but for some reason that remained in the final Italian mix.
Dances with Wolves is one of my favourite scores and my favourite of John Barry. His magnum opus. Both versions of The Buffalo Hunt are brilliant but I do think the re-score is much better (and Barry’s heart was definitely in it - to my ears anyway). The original version is an extended version of the short cue, Charge, heard near the start of the film.
There is an interesting story in the LLL liner notes from Mark McKenzie about how he attempted to add some flourishes to the orchestration and John Barry very quietly and calmly just crossed those flourishes out. It proves Barry owned and cared for that music.
By the way, for what it's worth — zero — although I really like the revised music of The Buffalo Hunt, I think it undermines the integrity of the score.
John Barry musically narrates John Dunbar's journey through that John Dunbar theme, and for this scene which is a transformative, pivotal moment in John Dunbar's character arc, it really would have been best for it to be scored with that triumphant expression of his theme.
In other words, I think John Barry's dramatic instinct was more on the button than Costner's in that moment.
One of my favourite movies and scores - I have to say the film version of that cue works infinitely better for the film than the album version, as good as that alternative is. It's a great listen, but I find the film version grander, more serious and it has one of the most beautiful choral bridges Barry ever wrote. It's an all-time favourite cue of mine and I was so grateful LLL put out the correct cut finally.
On the Italian dub - a lot of strange edits find their way into EU films because of the long lead time for dubbing, it's possible you've watched an early mix there maybe - although I agree with Stephen, that scene was extended so the music would have stopped long before the end...
On the Italian dub - a lot of strange edits find their way into EU films because of the long lead time for dubbing, it's possible you've watched an early mix there maybe - although I agree with Stephen, that scene was extended so the music would have stopped long before the end...
On the Facebook link in the original post you can watch the sequence with the original cue--that's how the film was originally released in theaters here in 1990. The clip comes from a VHS tape recording of the premiere Italian national television broadcast of the film (in its original theatrical cut) and there is no way they could've aired a bootleg copy or an unfinished version--that is a telecine master coming from the distributor.
There are several reasons why and how this could've happened, but the most logical one is that the Italian localisation happened when the film was still unfinished, as it was released in theaters here less than a month after the US theatrical release, which back then was unheard of. Until the late 1990s, the release window of foreign films was usually 3 or 4 months after the original country's release, so that it would give ample time for translation, dubbing and mixing (this happened especially on big summer studio films, which were always released from September through Decemeber over here). The most sensible assumption to make here is that the M&E track that was sent over to the Italian dubbing studio was not the correct/finished one. It was the norm again in those days to have local dubbing studios take care also of the final mix and sometimes it could happen that there were discrepancies with the original mix.
Now that I think about it, there is a similar situation with the first Star Wars film (the 1977 one) in its German release--in that version only, the sequence when Luke is pulled under the water by the creature in the trash compactor had the cue playing underneath.
By the way, for what it's worth — zero — although I really like the revised music of The Buffalo Hunt, I think it undermines the integrity of the score.
John Barry musically narrates John Dunbar's journey through that John Dunbar theme, and for this scene which is a transformative, pivotal moment in John Dunbar's character arc, it really would have been best for it to be scored with that triumphant expression of his theme.
In other words, I think John Barry's dramatic instinct was more on the button than Costner's in that moment.
Cheers
I've always felt with the rewrite Barry dug deeper and created something absolutely inspired and transcendent. The original version somehow always felt a little obvious whereas the rewrite was, like The Ecstasy Of Gold, still within the musical language of the film but above and beyond. The orchestration of Dunbar's theme featured in the original version of the buffalo hunt still featured in the movie (Charge) the attack during Dunbar's distracting suicide attempt and at that moment it feels perfect, heroic, patriotic, martial but the hunt deserved something more.
The original version somehow always felt a little obvious.
It is, yes.
It's about as obvious as quoting the Superman theme in Superman's big reveal — and just as right.
This is how I see it, and how I think it's meant to be seen:
The buffalo hunt isn't just an exciting but irrelevant side-bar.
It's the big scene. It's the pivotal moment in John Dunbar's journey. It's the scene where he is transformed into a hero.
It's this film's version of Superman's coming out scene.
If you don't use the character's theme in his big transformative moment, when do you use it?
That said, I absolutely agree with you that the rescored music is brilliant, arguably a better piece of stand-alone music.
However, in terms of the whole film score as a complete narrative, I stand by my belief that John Barry was right to build this big highlight scene on a euphoric version of John Dunbar's theme. It's more integral.
And it was expanded upon greatly for the hunt. I’m thinking of the stirring opening buildup, in particular, and how it segued to the Dunbar theme in its even more majestic arrangement. At least the buildup remained and fit just fine with the replacement.
It’s the big scene. It's the pivotal moment in John Dunbar's journey. It's the scene where he is transformed into a hero.
That point cannot be overstated, as well as Barry’s focus on hearing all things unfold as seen through Dunbar’s experience. I’m linking this to the Fort Hays officer’s toast (“To your journey! To my journey!!”) and the significance of “journey” within contexts both physical and spiritual. Which is the p.o.v. Barry evidently took throughout the narrative.
If you saw a version with the original music in that scene, then you must have either seen a pre-release edit, which is hard to believe would be leaked to Italian theatres, or the dub was done incorrectly, in which case you should also remember sitting in your seat wondering why the music finished half-way through the sequence.
Cheers
Not correct
it happened a lot in the 90's
i saw a version of JP (1993) in cinemas where the jump from the electric fence climb was included - and yes it was - saw it two times in cinema - that part was not included in all subsequence releases
