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The final version of the opening credits wasn't recorded until October 31. And that recording ended up being used for the end credits instead, while the end credits music recorded a week earlier was later edited and sped up and placed over the main title credits in the final film.
But it's a nice story.
Love this.
Obviously, it's entirely possible Donner was simply guilty of a little creative license here. But there's also a decent chance that this is how Donner remembers it happening. It's why I don't put that much credence in some musician who swears he recorded Jerry Goldsmith's rejected score for The Sting (okay, I completely made that up). Read the excellent book Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli: The Epic Story of the Making of The Godfather to see how people who were very much there recall the same events completely differently.
A lot of Hollywood's making of/behind the scenes stories that became really famous are mostly "print the legend" stuff. Stories of how stuff is created are usually more trivial and banal, so why not keep the dream alive by touching them up a little so that they sound much more enticing?
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(throws out EVERY DVD with director/producers/writers/actors commentaries) lol
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The final version of the opening credits wasn't recorded until October 31. And that recording ended up being used for the end credits instead, while the end credits music recorded a week earlier was later edited and sped up and placed over the main title credits in the final film.
But it's a nice story.
Love this.
Obviously, it's entirely possible Donner was simply guilty of a little creative license here. But there's also a decent chance that this is how Donner remembers it happening. It's why I don't put that much credence in some musician who swears he recorded Jerry Goldsmith's rejected score for The Sting (okay, I completely made that up). Read the excellent book Leave the Gun, Take the Cannoli: The Epic Story of the Making of The Godfather to see how people who were very much there recall the same events completely differently.
Not sure, I wasn't there, but lots of things are possible... Donner took creative license, Donner remembered it that way... is it also possible that it was the first recording session Donner attended? I mean, a director is not always present on every recording session.
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Posted: |
May 8, 2025 - 10:30 AM
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By: |
townerbarry
(Member)
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I saw one of those pop-up videos on Facebook the other day of Christopher Reeve speaking with Larry King and talking about how unimpressed he was with Brando. It surprised me. Reeve normally is only ever complimentary.
Yep Christopher Reeve also said it on David Letterman..The Same thing! But Chris was right. Collected more than 2 million ..and then Marlon Brando sued Producers ..Ilya and Alexander for cutting his scenes out..and Suzanne York reshot the scenes for lil dick Lester’s Superman 2..with that London High School Band! lol. All we saw was Marlon Brando’s hand? Remember Marlon Had a contract saying that Salkinds owed Brando 11.75% of Superman 2’s Profits. It was settled out of Court.
https://youtu.be/w9uyvZ4answ?si=4cq0Uo1Hig6izGtJ
They cut out Brando for 2 because they couldn't afford to pay him the percentage of domestic and international profits from pending sequel.
They were slow in paying out for the first film and were sued by Brando, Donner and Puzo. Puzo got his million dollar check in 1982, I think. Donner and Brando eventually settled around then too.
I love Lester, but Superman 2 was done in a hurry, special effect shots looked terrible in some scenes and it generally looked cheap. The care and attention on the first film is obvious on the big screen.
They fired Donner mainly on budgetary concerns and, perhaps, vision for the second movie. Some of it may have been personal, but mostly the former reasons. Would Donner have accepted Brando being cut? Probably not, so I don't think Donner could have made that movie even if he wasn't fired. It was going to be heavily compromised without Marlon - and it was.
You did know that Richard Donner when Directing Superman, was also directing Superman 2 at the same time..with Producers Salkinds Permission! Richard Donner had directed 75% of Superman 2 and Finnished Superman, Released it in December 1978, Great Reviews, Big Box Office Numbers! Richard Donner was fired from Superman II on March 15, 1979. He was replaced by Richard Lester. Donner had completed around 75% of the filming before being removed from the project. The tension between Donner and producers Alexander Salkind and Pierre Spengler led to his dismissal.
And anyone else that didn’t know..Any scenes with Gene Hackman was Directed by Richard Donner, because Hackman refused to come back and do any Richard Lester Reshoots! And The Salkinds when Richard Lester’s version of Superman 2 was finished..offered to Richard Donner Co-Director Credit. Richard Donner Refused, saying I am not a Co-Director.
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Posted: |
May 8, 2025 - 10:30 AM
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By: |
townerbarry
(Member)
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I saw one of those pop-up videos on Facebook the other day of Christopher Reeve speaking with Larry King and talking about how unimpressed he was with Brando. It surprised me. Reeve normally is only ever complimentary.
Yep Christopher Reeve also said it on David Letterman..The Same thing! But Chris was right. Collected more than 2 million ..and then Marlon Brando sued Producers ..Ilya and Alexander for cutting his scenes out..and Suzanne York reshot the scenes for lil dick Lester’s Superman 2..with that London High School Band! lol. All we saw was Marlon Brando’s hand? Remember Marlon Had a contract saying that Salkinds owed Brando 11.75% of Superman 2’s Profits. It was settled out of Court.
https://youtu.be/w9uyvZ4answ?si=4cq0Uo1Hig6izGtJ
They cut out Brando for 2 because they couldn't afford to pay him the percentage of domestic and international profits from pending sequel.
They were slow in paying out for the first film and were sued by Brando, Donner and Puzo. Puzo got his million dollar check in 1982, I think. Donner and Brando eventually settled around then too.
I love Lester, but Superman 2 was done in a hurry, special effect shots looked terrible in some scenes and it generally looked cheap. The care and attention on the first film is obvious on the big screen.
They fired Donner mainly on budgetary concerns and, perhaps, vision for the second movie. Some of it may have been personal, but mostly the former reasons. Would Donner have accepted Brando being cut? Probably not, so I don't think Donner could have made that movie even if he wasn't fired. It was going to be heavily compromised without Marlon - and it was.
You did know that Richard Donner when Directing Superman, was also directing Superman 2 at the same time..with Producers Salkinds Permission! Richard Donner had directed 75% of Superman 2 and Finnished Superman, Released it in December 1978, Great Reviews, Big Box Office Numbers! Richard Donner was fired from Superman II on March 15, 1979. He was replaced by Richard Lester. Donner had completed around 75% of the filming before being removed from the project. The tension between Donner and producers Alexander Salkind and Pierre Spengler led to his dismissal.
And anyone else that didn’t know..Any scenes with Gene Hackman was Directed by Richard Donner, because Hackman refused to come back and do any Richard Lester Reshoots! And The Salkinds when Richard Lester’s version of Superman 2 was finished..offered to Richard Donner Co-Director Credit. Richard Donner Refused, saying I am not a Co-Director.
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Posted: |
May 8, 2025 - 12:45 PM
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By: |
panavision
(Member)
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You did know that Richard Donner when Directing Superman, was also directing Superman 2 at the same time..with Producers Salkinds Permission! Richard Donner had directed 75% of Superman 2 and Finnished Superman, Released it in December 1978, Great Reviews, Big Box Office Numbers! Richard Donner was fired from Superman II on March 15, 1979. He was replaced by Richard Lester. Donner had completed around 75% of the filming before being removed from the project. The tension between Donner and producers Alexander Salkind and Pierre Spengler led to his dismissal.
Yes, but as far as I understand it it was mainly a business decision to not bring Donner back. Like I said, the sequel wasn't going to be what Donner and Mankiewicz envisioned because Brando's footage was not going to be used. Also, there would be less tension making the sequel because of their personal issues.
And anyone else that didn’t know..Any scenes with Gene Hackman was Directed by Richard Donner, because Hackman refused to come back and do any Richard Lester Reshoots! And The Salkinds when Richard Lester’s version of Superman 2 was finished..offered to Richard Donner Co-Director Credit. Richard Donner Refused, saying I am not a Co-Director.
Hackman wasn't available at the time. He did attend the premiere, so there was probably no bad blood between the producers and Gene.
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With all this, kind of miracle Superman 2 turned out as good as it did!
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Posted: |
May 9, 2025 - 3:33 AM
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By: |
Amer Zahid
(Member)
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Last spring I was invited to watch a rehearsal for SUPERMAN IN CONCERT at Roy Thomson Hall, with music performed live-to-picture by the Toronto Symphony Orchestra.
That was really something, sitting in an empty concert hall, watching classical musicians work through my favourite film score. Understand: I lived inside the original 2LP soundtrack from the age of 16 onwards. In my headphones, every day, years. I know this music.
The film was the original 1978 theatrical cut, but now with some of the unused music restored. You know that music – several minutes that were on the album but never in the movie. (That always confused teenaged me.) We now had music for the launch of baby Kal-El’s starship, and the Krypton-quake that sends panic through the populace. Also for the subway tunnel, when the detective spies on Otis using his secret entrance into Luthor’s lair.
This was just a rehearsal so I had to forgive the occasional mistake. The timpani’s first roll into the main title’s ostinato was tentative and ineffectual. That punch in the brass when teenage Clark runs alongside the train, was late. You know that punch. It’s supposed to burst in after the pizzicato strings establish the locomotive. And the french horn totally missed that depth-full spread of thunder that’s meant to show the entire curve of the planet just before Superman spins at super-speed to turn back time. Mere quibbles. Rehearsal problems. Some were actually addressed right there when the conductor stopped, gave a note, and they rewound the film to try again.
One really understands what’s intended by this music when one sees it live. Because here, in the concert hall, you’re not only hearing it, you’re feeling it. Drums hit you in the pit of your stomach. Strings raise your hairs. Trumpets really do blow your head off. And that signature Williams touch – that warm, mountainous glow of brass and horn that sounds like adventure itself – really does catch you in the throat. No stereo – no matter how expensive – can ever do that for you.
When the tuba plods with Otis as he lumbers down the street, we actually feel Williams poking fun at thievery, and villainy, and bad-guys-ery in general, because now we understand that he’s saving the majesty of this score for the main event, the title character, and rightly so. Even during this first rehearsal the orchestra beautifully captured the might and resonance of our greatest modern legend.
Later that evening when the audience finally arrived -- S shirts, baseball hats, costumes and all – it was obvious that there is still a deep love for this film. Now, no more rehearsing! The audience is listening!
What the mighty TSO got right they got very, very right! Flubs and missed measures are part of the package with a live symphony. We forgive the warts, because we must. Must forgive the french horn being absent (to my ears) when the first rush of blue letters pushed those little cinema curtains aside and thrust us into outer space. Hey! French Horn! Are you asleep? Okay, okay never mind, because now we’re thumping with the timpani, cellos, and bass trombones for the indelible heartbeat of this score – that recurring pulse that builds us towards the spectacle to come. When that figure continues to build, adding sections of instruments measure by measure – now strings, now woodwinds, now everybody – bum-ba-da bum-ba-da, bum bum bum bum bum bum-da-da bum-da-da – it was unbearably exciting. The orchestra played that with such electrifying exactitude I could hardly believe it.
All of the many colours of the score came to life. Jor-El’s speech to his infant son was moving and pure. Those scurries in the strings and flutes as the starship speeds through space, were sparkly and feather-light. (That trip through space is an alluring stand-alone melody that never recurs in the rest of the film but that teenaged me always imagined belonged alongside Holst’s other planets.) As is usual with Williams, there’s a lot of distinct melodic material making up the flesh of this score. Krypton has a theme. Baby Kal-El has one. Smallville has a theme – an earthy, Copland-esque portrait that reaches full maturity when mother and son say goodbye in the field. There are two themes for Superman – three if you count the B-section of the overture, no, four, actually, if you also count the moment Christopher Reeve takes off his glasses and *almost* confesses his true identity to Lois – and there’s the famous love theme, which in 1978 we knew as the newest in that succession of five-note themes that came out of Williams’ pen following Close Encounters. This tune – Can You Read My Mind – adds the romantic layer to the picture and basically functions as Lois’s theme. We hear it in variations – sweet and syrupy, light flighty, epic and grand, or in a minor key for Lois in trouble. There’s a goofy march for big fat Otis, a hint of a scherzo for the Statue of Liberty, and a full-on military motif for the convoy of trucks that Luthor tries to sabotage. The TSO hit it all.
Our cello section was in fine form. (They usually are.) You know that short phrase for elderly Martha Kent as she gazes through her window, just before saying goodbye to Clark? That few seconds – that close-up of Phyllis Thaxter with silver hair -- is a moment of music all on its own, just as complete as anything else in the score, filled with age and melancholy for a poignant 9 ½ seconds. That’s the thing about this score! There’s not one wasted gesture!
The woodwinds were icy cold when Clark Kent hiked through the arctic. Kal-El’s 12-year sojourn through time and space has a fullness when performed live that no recording could ever capture.
The helicopter rescue! The centrepiece of the score. So much suspense, so much glory, so many sync-points for the conductor to get just right. That’s the sequence I was bracing for. There’s onlookers gawking, a damsel falling, and a big blue bird in bright red boots leaping into the air to save the day. Happily, the orchestra nailed every detail, every gesture, every blast of victory. It looked and sounded great. Best of all – it *felt* right.
All in all I’d say it was swell.
Judging by the extended ovation at the end, most of the audience agreed with me – that this was a success, even with the occasional flub. (Seriously, Mr. French Horn! Where the hell were you all night?! You waited until Superman brought Luthor to the prison yard – nearly the end of the film – to finally hit a properly glowing note!)
We didn’t get to enjoy the end credits. Union overtime I suspect. The players had to stop. The credits did roll, but the musicians left their chairs and the house lights came on. No music. A pity, as the credits are usually such a glorious way to sum up the evening.
If I could pull the marketing department aside and give them a note, I’d say they would be paying more respect to our (still alive) composer by renaming this event. Instead of “SUPERMAN IN CONCERT” how about:
“SUPERMAN THE MUSIC.”
Just a thought. But a good one.
I’ll wear my Superman silk necktie the next time I go. My grandma gave it to me.
Wonderfull. Couldnt have summed it better!
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I'm one of the few who literally hated Superman II when it first came out. It felt like a betrayal of the first film. My younger brother felt the same way.
What was odd to us was that we thought we were the only ones who held that opinion, because our mutual friends and most of the critics were going on and on about how it was better than the first one.
Even back in 1980 - well before I knew any of this history - I thought it was a schizophrenic movie, half good, half cringe worthy. The slapstick humor continually undermined all my goodwill. My thought was - if the filmmakers don't even care about the characters, why should I?
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