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 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 1:24 AM   
 By:   Damon   (Member)

I know everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but after reading some of the negative posts about Hans Zimmers score to "Gladiator" I couldn't believe it! http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/eek.gif">
Being a composer myself, for the past 14 years, I have come to respect Zimmers work. His past scores like "The Thin Red Line", "As Good As it Gets", and "Gladiator" have shown much maturity in his work. He has the ability to completely cover any style of music for score. Take "As Good As it Gets" and compare that to "Gladiator". Two completely different sounding scores! He has such a broad range and I think it kind of sucks that he always seems to score mostly big epic action movies. I'd love to see him do more dramatic movies.
As for "Gladiator", track 3 on the CD is fantastic orchestration. The brass and strings are so intense, especially in the scene where the dog runs through the fire in slow motion. Man, I get pumped up just hearing that cue!
Lisa Gerrards vocals didn't bother me at all either. I thought they were perfectly suitable for the film and beautiful especially in the end scenes where Maximus is dying in the arena and visualizing his wife and children.
"Sorrow" and "Earth" are also 2 great cues.
Are there any other composers or music listeners that dig Zimmers stuff here, or is it just me? http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/frown.gif">
I will say, runner up to scoring this movie should have been by far Basil Poledouris. There is actually one spot in track 3 that sounds alot like the music from "Conan".

[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 30 December 2000).]

 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 2:04 AM   
 By:   Gunnar   (Member)

Actually, I started respecting Zimmer when I read his interview for FSM (it's on this site somewhere). That doesn't mean that I automatically like his music.

I think his orchestra/rock mutant scores are not very inspired and sound a lot alike. I mean, they work on an emotional level, but that's not too hard if you simply let a synthetically enhanced orchestra scream at full volume at the audience. I think his 'small' scores are far more interesting. As for GLADIATOR, there was too much borrowing from Holst's "The Planets" for my taste. But I have to say that the 'oriental' touch of the music transported to me very well the message of ancient Rome being the centre of a multi-cultural world. Still, I would have liked a more classical approach for a film that obviously follows in the foot prints of films like BEN HUR or QUO VADIS.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 3:34 AM   
 By:   Logied   (Member)

There is a difference between not careing
for a composers music (I,m not a Zimmer fan)
and his/hers talent for what they do. I
don,t doubt and believe that his work fits his films very well but his music does not
fit well for my listening pleasure and for
some others as well. Sure I like some cues
he has done, maybe there will be a best of
Zimmer compilation someday. Maybe he has
become a member of the Horner basher syndrome
people. My comment on Zimmer is I have enjoyed the movies his music has been in and
his music worked well, as for his music on
CD, I have MI-2 and it was Brash and overdone
IMHO. As for Gladiator, I enjoyed the movie
but don,t remember the music.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 4:06 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Well Damon, you'd be happy to learn that I have never been afraid to publically admit my affection for much of Hans Zimmer's music, even as I know that probably makes my respect (if I had any to begin with) drop a few notches in some messageboarders' books.

It is first and foremost Zimmer's "ethnic" sound that appeals to me, be it the african-oriented POWER OF ONE or LION KING, the "indian" K2, the "egyptian" sound of GLADIATOR or PRINCE OF EGYPT or the asian-sounding BLACK RAIN or BEYOND RANGOON (the latter is my favourite).

I also enjoy a lot of his action material (sacrilege!), in the CRIMSON TIDE/THE ROCK/PEACEMAKER vein. You should know, though, that I usually enjoy film music completely separated from the film itself - as just another music genre - and I CAN agree upon the fact that some of Zimmer's action material in films can be a bit bombastic at times. But only at times. Usually it complements the equally striking visuals (Scott, Bay, Leder) neatly, IMO.

I have never been very fond of his orchestral comedy or drama efforts, though (at least not in recent years). Somehow, they seem a little too lightweight for me.

Hans Zimmer, a prodigy musical child, has always had a unique gift for melody (esp. the powerful minor-moded ones) and "soundscapes" that equal those of Vangelis.

I guess I never tire of saying that. So be it.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 4:53 AM   
 By:   Gustavo Joseph   (Member)

Well, you said that Gladiator had some great orchestration: Zimmer didn´t did it. He can´t orchestrate, he can´t conduct. I don´t know if he actually composes his music, his scores ALWAYS have some other guys in the ADDICIONAL MUSIC credit: came on!!!
I like A LOT some of Zimmer themes, like RAIN MAN, CRIMSON TIDE and AS GOOD AS IT GETS, but how can I know if he really wrote it?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 6:44 AM   
 By:   lars b   (Member)

It's not that I don't like Hans Zimmer or his music, indeed, 'The Thin Red Line', 'Beyond Rangoon', 'Regarding Henry' and 'Gladiator' are very nice soundtracks.
But coming from a Rock/Pop background, he doesn't have the gift, or education that people like Williams or Goldsmith have.
Zimmer needs the help of samples and/or drum patterns to camouflage his lack of composition.
People like Trevor Rabin, Vangelis, Tangerine Dream, and Zimmer, who make some good music, are just not the same league as other composers.
Lars.


NP. Pino Donaggio/Brian DePalma collection

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Beatty   (Member)

I'm sure Hans is a swell person, a good worker and is kind to animals. However, his music that has appeared in movies has gone from being not unsuitable (Paper House) to distracting right on to annoying (Gladiator).

(In regard to the Lisa Gerrard portion of the Gladiator score: it could hardly be clumsier or more sophomoric. I was aghast when I heard it and despaired for the future of all human culture. I threw all my recordings in the ocean and burned down a library, put a hot poker in my ears and clawed a hole in the ground to live in. I subsist on the ends of worms. Anything rather than take the chance of hearing another movie so affronted.)

On CD, a lot of Zimmer's music makes for credible background music. Attentive listens have not been especially rewarding.

That species of music just doesn't do anything for me. I have no notion whether it's good music or not - I've given up trying to fit everything I hear onto some continuum of relative values. (Except for Lisa Gerrard's contribution to Gladiator, of course. See above.)

(While I was writing this I was listening to Franz Waxman's title sequence for Beloved Infidel. That music would have worked just as well for Gladiator.)

------------------
np: http://www.geocities.com/kyle_beatty" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/kyle_beatty

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 10:43 AM   
 By:   Spacehunter   (Member)

Yes, I like Zimmer a lot. I've not heard much of his early stuff, like DAYS OF THUNDER or BLACK RAIN, but most of what he did in the mid- to late-90s I have heard. I love THE ROCK, THE PEACEMAKER, and, yes, even portions of THE LION KING (as bad as the movie was), but I think that GLADIATOR and (especially) M:I2 are scores that show Zimmer is capable of taking a few bad steps here and there.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 29, 2000 - 11:24 PM   
 By:   alarli   (Member)

If I was a director and Hans Zimmer was the only composer available, I would prefer to make my movie without music.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 12:19 AM   
 By:   Howard L   (Member)

Hell, his music graced Rain Man, As Good As It Gets and Driving Miss Daisy, 3 movies I thoroughly enjoyed. Most folks like the previous respondent would probably look at me with eyes rolling for mentioning Daisy; c'est la vie. And that's okay for I have no idea why Thin Red Line gets praised so much, I thought it did positively nothing for the movie. Either way, Zimmer seems to stand for something negative much in the same manner as Horner. I fully understand the brickbats aimed at Mr. H and as far as I'm concerned he's earned them. Perhaps someone can articulate why Mr. Z has gotten his?

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 2:23 AM   
 By:   keyser soze   (Member)

zimmer has made some bombers, but overall he is one of the best composers working today. With so many disposable scores these days, he has a solid frame of work. The thin red line, the rock, gladiator, and the peacemaker are all some of my favorite film scores. (lisa gerrard's work on the insider is also great) mi:2 is okay, with only about four good songs.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 6:02 AM   
 By:   Romy   (Member)

I'm upset to hear such brash comments on such a incredible variety composers. hans Zimmer is phenomenal. I even liked M:I2! His Mya thme, was beautiful and rich. Mano to mano was simple, but it wasn't awful. As far as his other scores... WOW. How can you say his material sounds the same. Let's see the expert who can find a redeeming theme in:
GLADIATOR
THE THIN RED LINE
DROP ZONE
DRIVING MISS DAISY
THE CRITIC
THE LION KING
RAIN MAN
MISSION IMPOSSIBLE 2
He has more variety than most composers of our time. His PEACEMAKER hymn was incredible. All of his THIN RED LINE was unique, compeeling, and caught sight of what the movie was depicting. And if one must insist on is redundancy on his action scores, I DON'T GIVE A DAMN, because all of Hans Zimmer's action scores are BAD ASS! Who can argue with THE ROCK(he wrote the main theme!) PEACEMAKER, and CRIMSON TIDE. They make movies bbetter than most mediocre film scores these days. oh and for kudos, I loved GLADIATOR. Strenght and Honor had some real feeling. Zimmer made the opening battle scene a real eye-opener if you ask me. I don't think we'd be arguing over a universally worthless composer, so Zimmer's gotta have a substantial amount of talent

ROMY

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2000 - 10:19 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

A bizarre editing error caused this post to appear three times in a row.

Scroll down for the final version....
[This message has been edited by Swashbuckler (edited 31 December 2000).]

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2000 - 10:20 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Only a little further...

[This message has been edited by Swashbuckler (edited 31 December 2000).]

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2000 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

Well, I can't speak for everyone, nor can I say that what follows is anything more than my opinion, but...

I do not like Hans Zimmer for the most part because I find his music either bland or obnoxiously loud for no good reason.

I do not like the fact that he writes different arrangements of the same theme (originally for Backdraft, now referred to by most as the Iron Chef theme) for every action picture he does, whether it works or not (its appearance in Gladiator was ridiculous).

I do not like the fact that his scores are so damn formulaic. Every Zimmer score has a paint-by-numbers feel... he uses the same sort of music for the same sort of scene in every film he composes. While it makes sense that a certain similarity would arise if this happens, one begins to smell a rat after it happens four or five times.

I do not like the fact that the Media Ventures crew has all adapted his post-Black Rain style (a score I liked when I first heard it; now that I've heard it a million times since, for several different films I'm a little less enthused about it) and compose score that have the same lack of identity.

I do not like that Zimmer, and Media Ventures at large, stand for generic film scoring. I'm not interested in that. I much prefer it when there is a style that goes in different directions based on the movie he/she gets. With Zimmer or any of the Media Ventures, you always know what the score is going to sound like. You always know what's going to happen next in the score. This sort of predictability is something I don't find interesting.

Regarding the plagiarism thing, I don't think Zimmer is as ridiculous about it as Horner is, but it does rankle me when the obvious rip-offs show up... the "Mars" thing was a rip-off, the "Sahara" thing was a rip-off... I mean, quoting "Mars" may have made sense to Zimmer (I don't know why), but at least credit the damn piece to Holst. It's not that hard to do. Really. George Fenton credits his quotes all the time.

While I admit that Zimmer has composed some effective score, I must say that I have not been interested in his music since the ear-splitting headache he caused with Backdraft. What a horrible score. What a horrible movie.

So, Damon, I would turn the question around. How can you possibly like Hans Zimmer?

 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2000 - 10:25 AM   
 By:   Josh "Swashbuckler" Gizelt   (Member)

What the hell happened here?

Instead of editing the post, it was submitted again?

That's wierd.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 31, 2000 - 6:09 AM   
 By:   Bill R. Myers   (Member)

I like a lot of his stuff. As Good as it Gets and A League of Their Own are the work of a born entertainer. Rain Man and A World Apart have a riveting drive, and The Thin Red Line fitted the film with an aura that was the perfect compliment to Malick's technique. But his action scores tend to be pompous and intrusive, and the orchestral writing on The Lion King was shapeless and uninvolving.


NP: Under Fire

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 11:14 PM   
 By:   H. Rocco   (Member)

Zimmer himself is highly critical of his work on THE LION KING ... I think his good nature and witty self-deprecation are at least as appealing as the best of his music.

Hans Zimmer is the most talented of the current breed of composers that one might most closely liken to wallpaper-hangers. His work has no particular depth, but the surfaces CAN be highly appealing.

THE LION KING is coincidentally a pastiche of my two favorite previous scores by him, BACKDRAFT and the remarkable, little-remembered POWER OF ONE (1992). I own a lot of his stuff, and like it more than I don't (or else it'd be out the window), but when he goes for something deeper like THE HOUSE OF THE SPIRITS or THE THIN RED LINE, I don't find it comes off terribly well.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 11:30 PM   
 By:   Beatty   (Member)

Why can't I say it nice like H. Rocco? That's what I meant.

------------------
np: http://www.geocities.com/kyle_beatty" TARGET=_blank>www.geocities.com/kyle_beatty

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 30, 2000 - 11:46 PM   
 By:   Damon   (Member)

Well Swashbuckler, I think I like Zimmer for his great use of orchestration more then anything, especially "The Thin Red Line" and "Gladiator". The guy is self-taught and can't even site read! I think that says a lot when you listen to some of his great action cues. For someone who is self-taught like myself, it is very hard to orchestrate for a very large orchestra, whether you conduct them or not. Zimmer still has to sketch out the entire score on his sequencers and samplers before he hires his orchestrator to come in and write out the music he has laid down. I think Zimmer comes out with great scores also considering the fact that he is most likely working on 3 different other ones at the same time! Talk about stressful! Think of having to write 90 minutes of orchestral music in 4 weeks. Then realize you have 2 other movies that have deadlines on top of that! http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/eek.gif">
His music can be listened to on it's own which is a sign of a great composer. He's one of the top composers today and I have read that he gets a cool 1 million for scoring large films. That's also not including what the producers pay the orchestrators, music editors, conductor, etc. I think that says something about the guy. http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/smile.gif">


[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 31 December 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Damon (edited 31 December 2000).]

 
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