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 Posted:   Jun 7, 2023 - 2:21 PM   
 By:   stravinsky   (Member)

Since it appears the McNeely, Gamba, Gerhardt, Bremner, Bernstein & Herrmann Re-recordings of this Score are all incomplete can someone please tell me which cues I should assemble from various recordings to make it so?

 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 9:05 AM   
 By:   jkheiser   (Member)

Since it appears the McNeely, Gamba, Gerhardt, Bremner, Bernstein & Herrmann Re-recordings of this Score are all incomplete can someone please tell me which cues I should assemble from various recordings to make it so?

To be clear, you want to cobble together a half-dozen different recordings to gain an unspecified amount of music you’re hoping this forum will answer?

That’s like asking food critics which Italian restaurants have the most spaghetti and combining noodles from each one. It will be... edible.

 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 10:24 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I have all of these recordings, and would much rather listen to sometimes one or the other, rather than a stitched together listening from various performances. That would be like watching a version of HAMLET edited together from various performances.

But it's an interesting question nevertheless whether a "complete" version could be assembled.

 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

I have all of these recordings, and would much rather listen to sometimes one or the other, rather than a stitched together listening from various performances. That would be like watching a version of HAMLET edited together from various performances..

I agree. I will also say that they are each largely complete (I don't notice anything missing), with the exception of two source cues that were not composed by Herrmann. The newsreel music (cobbled together from various old film scores) exists only on the atrocious LeRoy Holmes LP, while the end title (an instrumental of the song "A Poco No" by Pepe Guizar and Herman Ruby, adapted in the film to be the song "Oh Mr. Kane") was only recorded by Elmer Bernstein (peculiar, since it's a Herrmann compilation, though it also includes the Arthur Benjamin piece from The Man Who Knew Too Much).

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   stravinsky   (Member)

All i am asking is whether the Varese recording is complete or not. Clearly it isn't entirely. Like the Varese version of Vertigo.

 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 11:40 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

All i am asking is whether the Varese recording is complete or not. Clearly it isn't entirely. Like the Varese version of Vertigo.

I have always believed it is complete as far as the Herrmann compositions go. I re-watched the film last year and didn't notice anything I don't know from that recording. But I can't swear to it in court.

 
 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 2:34 PM   
 By:   JSDouglas   (Member)

Okay - by a strange coincidence I recently made my own comparison of the various CITIZEN KANE recordings. I will reveal some of my findings here.

Each of the comprehensive recordings of the score arrange the cues mostly in film order. Here is a rundown of all the recorded cues with variants noted:

Prelude
(Here is where the "News on the March" sequence appears. None of this music is by Herrmann. It consists of stock music from the RKO library. Leroy Holmes is the only one to attempt to include some of this stuff on his re-recording.)
Rain (Susan in Nightclub) (aka Rain Sequence) (partly unused in film)
Thatcher Library (Litany)
Manuscript Reading and Snow Picture
Mother's Sacrifice
Charles Meets Thatcher
Galop
Dissolve to Thatcher Reading Document (aka Dissolve to Thatcher) (A slight titling mistake here - the dissolve is to Bernstein, not Thatcher.)
Second Manuscript (partly unused in film)
Thanks (Only Chandos & Varese recorded this cue.)
Bernstein's Narration (unused in film) (Chandos recorded this twice in succession - maybe one is an alternate?)
Kane's New Office (aka Kane's News Office)
New Hornpipe Polka (aka Hornpipe Polka) (Preamble recorded this, but did not include it on their album - however, it does appear in the "Inquirer Suite" assembled as part of a Herrmann CD compilation entitled "The Inquirer.")
Carter's Exit
Chronicle Scherzo
Bernstein's Presto (unused in the film - Preamble recorded this cue twice in succession)
Collecting Statues (unused in the film) (Only Chandos recorded this cue - however, they placed it out of order after "Kane's Return" when, in fact, it was meant to lead into "Kane's Return.")
Kane's Return
Valse Presentation
Sunset Narrative (aka Sunset Narration)
Theme and Variations (Breakfast Montage)
Kane Meets Susan (aka Kane and Susan) (Preamble recorded this cue twice in succession with the second version omitting the abrupt cutoff.)
Susan's Room / Mother Memory
Mother Memory (this is a partial re-score of the previous cue)
The Trip (aka The Trip to Susan's)
Getty's Departure (aka Geddes's Departure)
Kane Marries (Chandos is the only recording that chose to include Hermann's revised "Welles Raises Kane" concert ending to this cue.)
Salammbo's Aria
The Night (unused in the film) (Only Varese recorded this cue which they assumed was some kind of demo piece - however, I believe it was written for the scene where Kane finds Leland passed out over his typewriter and goes on to finish his review for him.)
Leland's Dismissal
Dawn (unused in the film) (Only Varese recorded Hermann's first try at this cue which explains why the next cue is titled...)
New Dawn Music (aka Susan in Night Club (New Dawn Sequence))
Opera Montage (Only Preamble attempted this complicated cue requiring multiple overdubs - in "The Inquirer Suite" on a separate CD you can hear the orchestral component without the overdubs.)
Xanadu
Jigsaws (aka Jigsaw Puzzles (Perpetual Motion))
Second Xanadu
Kane's Picnic
Susan Leaves (unused in the film) (Chandos recorded two versions of this cue in succession.)
El Rancho (aka El Rancho (Second Dawn Sequence)) (Chandos recorded three versions of this cue - version #1 was recorded by Preamble, version #2 was recorded by Varese but only Chandos recorded version #3 which happens to be the same as the one used in the film.)
The Glass Ball
Xanadu Music (unused in the film) (Only Varese recorded this cue which may have been intended for part of Jerry's wrap-up at Xanadu - or possibly it's some kind of alternate - your guess is as good as mine.)
Finale
End Cast (Arranged by Conrad Salinger) (Not by Herrmann but only included at the end of a CITIZEN KANE Suite recorded by Elmer Bernstein for the Milan compilation CD "Bernard Herrmann Film Scores: From Citizen Kane to Taxi Driver.")

As far as I can tell, everything has been recorded from this film, just not all in one place!

 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 3:28 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Thanks, JSDouglas! Very interesting. I never listen to the Preamble anymore. Generally go to the Chandos, but still listen to Varese every so often.

 
 Posted:   Jun 8, 2023 - 3:32 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)

Wow JSDouglas! Major kudos for your amazing work on this! Now I *am* tempted to try and compile a complete version between the Chandos and Varese, I must admit…

Yavar

 
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