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So, anyway, I was walking down the street one day, when I ran into Hans Zimmer, Jerry Goldsmith and tree sloth. And the tree sloth said...
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So, anyway, I was walking down the street one day, when I ran into Hans Zimmer, Jerry Goldsmith and tree sloth. And the tree sloth said...
..he said, Greg Bryant interjects himself into a thread without discussing the subject matter.
Do you watch "Buffy", Greg? That's the subject.
: )
Ron
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Since we're only two days out of "Buffy, the Musical," I thought we ought to have all the comments relevant to that episode on this thread. I've copied them and pasted them below. If anyone wishes to excerpt his own comments into a separate posting, feel free and I will housekeep this post accordingly:
Posted: Nov. 06, 2001 - 8:52:28 PM / IP: 208.191.163.245
By: mwruger (Junior Member)
Spoilers!
OH MY Spoilers!!!
Turn back Joan, a fierce storm of Spoilers lie ahead!
Well, I just saw the Buffy Musical and I think opinion will divide into those who can’t stand musical’s and find the entire form contrived and hokey and those who don’t give a fig about any of that and enjoy musicals.
I am in the latter category, but I like Opera too, so the idea of people sing for no real reason doesn’t bother me. Joss Whedon isn’t going to let you off the hook that easy, he provides a reason for the song and dance and that’s okay, but I didn’t really need it. He certainly did his best to make it like a musical from the Golden Age as possible.
The music was wonderful, even the underscore was especially nice in my view. Really nice, tuneful songs that fit into the Slayer mythos quite well.
I thought that Sarah’s voice was a little weak. It sounded okay, just not much power there. Emma Caulfield, Amber Benson, James Marsten, Anthony Head seemed to me be the ones who could actually sing. Luckily, they got most of the songs although as the slayer, Sarah certainly had her share. The guy who played the demon was excellent. It also looked to me like Michelle Trachtenberg has had some dance training.
In short I loved it. The part that I enjoyed the most was when I thought of all the people who might have skipped this episode because it is a wimpy musical. Boy, are they in for a surprise next week!
Giles leaving to give Buffy room to grow?
Tara discovering Willow messed with her mind?
The Scoobies finding out EXACTLY what they did to Buffy?
Buffy Kissing SPIKE?!?!?
PS. One of the things that I love about this show is the attention to detail.
When Tara was identifying the flower component of Willow’s mind spell, the book identified it as a Lethe Bramble.
Awesome. In Greek mythology, to drink of the river Lethe brings oblivion to souls passing back into the world. They simply forget their former lives before living again.
Posted: Nov. 06, 2001 - 9:19:35 PM / IP: 166.107.79.67
By: Ron Pulliam (Member)
Ditto.
SPOILERS!!!
HOLY SPIT!
WOW!
The last scene was worth everything up til now!
And THEN they surprised the heck out of me with the previews...and that last scene of Giles kissing Anya!!!!!
WHOA! What a SHOW!
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 3:43:35 AM / IP: 207.251.220.186
By: ZapBrannigan (Member)
I'm glad I taped it while watching. I don't even mind that the show ran well past the stated one hour time slot, causing me to miss the beginning of "24."
I'm even more glad I took the night off from work. If I had set the VCR timer for it, I would have missed the stunning conclusion. And I've been rooting for Buffy to finally stop hating Spike.
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 9:11:10 AM / IP: 166.107.79.67
By: Ron Pulliam (Member)
Awesome score last night. Christophe Beck's underscore -- sprightly, amazing, perfectly matched to Whedon's unbelievably good songs!
SPOILERS AHEAD:
My choice for BEST MUSIC NUMBER: Spike's song to Buffy in which he tells her to leave him alone if all she is going to do is play games.
Second BEST MUSIC NUMBER: Buffy's song to the demon telling him to bring on the fire in which she reveals the awful truth to the gang...that she was wrenched from heaven and back into life and that her life was pure-tee hell.
BEST SINGLE MOMENT: THE KISS!
Favorite "background" Moment: The lady trying to sing her way out of the parking ticket she was getting!
Most Puzzling Moment: Dawn's kleptomania. And I had the feeling she was going to explain why she was doing it, but she was cut short.
I WANT TO KNOW WHAT TRANSPIRED BETWEEN BUFFY AND ANGEL IN THE MEETING WE DID NOT SEE!
Revealing details: The credits in which both Anthony Stewart Head (expected) and Amber Benson (unexpected) were listed as co-stars or guest stars....NOT their normal cast billing.
We know Head is moving on. And last night we got some idea that Tara may move on, as well. If the opening credits weren't clue enough, her reaction to Willow's deceitful spell, plus the previews of what she will say to Willow, lend credence to an imminent departure.
If you think I've misread this, feel free to say so.
(modified on Nov. 07, 2001 - 9:17:26 AM)
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 9:39:43 AM / IP: 216.238.60.42
By: Cooper (Member)
Wow, immensely weird, immensely bizarre. And most of all, immensely ambitious.
I'm really in a bind on this one, never having been ambivalent about Buffy, but often finding myself ambivalent about musicals. Imagine my predicament then, when watching "Once more, with feeling". I guess I'd have to say it left me bewitched, bothered and bewildered.
There's a certain eeriness that comes from this episode being as successful, musically, as it was. I could almost feel my expectations for it growing as I watched...so I didn't know what to do with the faint whiff of awkwardness which shone through here and there, awkwardness which was understandable and defensible; I mean, these song and dance confessions were forced by a demon, regardless of talent. So maybe it's a credit to "Once more..." that it was so much of a legitimate musical as to have me judge it on the basis of being a musical and not just as a Buffy episode. As a musical, it creaked a little. As an innovative Buffy episode, those same, understandable flaws were endearing. I continue to see it from these two perspectives. I was completely blown away by "Once more..."...and a little disappointed, all at once.
A minor thing: I almost think it would've been a good move on Whedon's part to retain the traditional credit sequence, rather than positioning the episode from the beginning--with its faux, old time intro--for break-out status. I mean, if The Body--which I think is still Whedon's best work--could use the original credits after the creepy display of Buffy's dead mother, then I can only imagine how effective it would've been for Whedon to shoot a traditional prologue, cap it with a song and a dance...before cutting to Nerf Herder. To me, that would've signalled that this show can do anything; it encompasses all manner of creative endeavor, countless styles. But Whedon opted to repackage this one, pitch it as more of a standalone. To me, that's where the confusion lies. Maybe when I cue this one up again, watch it a few more times it'll all fall comfortably into place. You know, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't be scratching my head like this had this Buffy not done something unprecedented and pretty much visionary. It's as true now as when Entertainment Weekly wrote it back in Buffy's third season; this is "...the most artistically ambitious show on television".
All this aside, I have never seen as lovely a lesbian love ballad as Tara's to Willow, which Whedon brings to a head with--ahem--suggested off-screen cunnilingus. And, excuse me, did anyone else catch his pun: "You make me Come-plete!"? Imagine UPN letting that slide. Imagine this coming up--oops, there's that pun again--on the Filmscoremonthly message board, in a Buffy the Vampire Slayer discussion thread. Joss Whedon made it possible.
In terms of narrative, by the way, I thought Buffy's disclosure of having been "...yanked out of heaven" worked really well. Nice, plaintive delivery on her part, and it hit everyone like a ton of bricks, especially Willow.
Questions:
Why did everyone sing on after the demon departed; was Whedon suggesting they'd all grown fond of crooning by that point? Were they addicted to candor? I had trouble swallowing, or understanding that.
And, did Xander really do the conjuring, or was he just covering for Dawn's petty theft; in other words, did she do the summoning just by wearing the necklace?
And, how could I have missed that Dawn really was a burgeoning "kleppper"? She's got quite a stash in her nightstand.
And damn, gotta get that new thread workin'!
--Coop
(modified on Nov. 07, 2001 - 10:17:49 AM)
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 10:15:33 AM / IP: 166.107.79.67
By: Ron Pulliam (Member)
Questions:
Why did everyone sing on after the demon departed; was Whedon suggesting they'd all grown fond of crooning by that point? Were they addicted to candor? I had trouble swallowing, or understanding that.
And, did Xander really do the conjuring, or was he just covering for Dawn's petty theft; in other words, did she do the summoning just by wearing the necklace?
--Coop
First off, I am a lover of all forms of theater and never find musicals hard to get into, unless they plain old SUCK. This was so NOT anywhere near that.
As to why they kept on singing, I figured it was because of the way the wonderful demon departed, in a whirl of sparkly/misty stuff that still lingered. Or, being very naughty, I could suggest it must have been afterglow.
I do not think Xander was covering for Dawn. There was a whole lotta singing BEFORE Dawn put the necklace on...and the singing had started before she lifted it at The Magic Box. They had already been discussing Buffy's query about everybody breaking into song when Dawn spied and took the necklace.
As for double-entendres...YEP! They are most wicked in Whedonvale...I just wished they'd had some chirping bats or something for transition scenes, emulating the rates in "Babe." That would have had me wetting myself, I'm afraid, but it would have been worth it!
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 11:06:08 AM / IP: 216.238.60.42
By: Cooper (Member)
First off, I am a lover of all forms of theater and never find musicals hard to get into, unless they plain old SUCK. This was so NOT anywhere near that.
I do not think Xander was covering for Dawn. There was a whole lotta singing BEFORE Dawn put the necklace on...and the singing had started before she lifted it at The Magic Box. They had already been discussing Buffy's query about everybody breaking into song when Dawn spied and took the necklace.
Ron: We're agreed, "Once more..." certainly did not suck. Nor did it blow. And, feel free to dig those musicals just as much as you want. I only meant to say that I was a little challenged in this department.
However, is the awkwardness that even Whedon would grant is there part of the point of this episode? If he had been able to wave a magic wand and beef up Sarah's vocals, for instance, would he have done it? Or, is the fact that a few of his actors and actresses are a little green at belting out their ballads...and that they belt them out nonetheless sort of the point? In other words, is the episode more about SENTIMENT than delivery? If so--and I'm beginning to think it is--it's all good!
For the record, though, traditional musicals are judged on delivery as much as their other merits, music, etc. So, "Once more..." only creaks--the little bit that it does--if Whedon wants it to be judged as a traditional musical and not just a stylistically innovative episode of Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
As for Xander covering for Dawn, seemed like he was stepping in to spare her a smokin' trip to Hell. I still think she could've done the conjuring by accident, if wearing the neckace was all that was entailed; she probably would've put it on earlier, before all the song and dance started, prior to her being nabbed by Sweet's boys.
--Coop
(modified on Nov. 07, 2001 - 11:11:10 AM)
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 11:45:02 AM / IP: 166.107.79.67
By: Ron Pulliam (Member)
As for Xander covering for Dawn, seemed like he was stepping in to spare her a smokin' trip to Hell. I still think she could've done the conjuring by accident, if wearing the neckace was all that was entailed; she probably would've put it on earlier, before all the song and dance started, prior to her being nabbed by Sweet's boys.
--Coop
I really enjoyed the scene. My take on all of it is that the demon believed Dawn to be the summoner because she wore the necklace.
Sweet's boys never appeared until after the necklace was placed around her neck. I think the wearing had everything to do with locating what was presumed to be the summoner.
Dawn protested several times that she hadn't done any summoning before Xander raised his hand. This was in reply to the demon's query as to who else it might have been giving credence to the idea that the wearer need not have been the summoner. If I recall correctly, Xander said he used the amulet to seek help in speaking his true feelings about getting married. To this end, his an Anya's delightful number in their apartment seemed to do the trick.
Truly not to be argumentative, I think that if Dawn had worn the necklace earlier, she would have kept it, like she did the medallion from the Halloween episode. She gave me the impression that she was seeing it for the first time when she palmed it.
We didn't see a summoning...all we ever saw was the necklace lying on the countertop during the conversation about the singing affliction.
I LOVED Xander's query as to whether his being the summoner meant he was to become the demon's queen.
And the demon replying "Tempting" was hilarious.
As funny as I found it, we are once again subjected to Xander casting himself into a less manly/masculine light. Long live buttmonkey/manbitch, I suppose. The writers just won't let him grow beyond a certain point, apparently.
Ron
(modified on Nov. 07, 2001 - 11:52:44 AM)
Posted: Nov. 07, 2001 - 12:25:16 PM / IP: 216.238.60.42
By: Cooper (Member)
Thanks, Ron.
For some reason, a lot of the standard exposition was lost on me in this musical episode. Guess I'm not so good at switching stylistic gears. All the unsung dialog went in one ear and out the other.
And, damn, NOW I remember the countertop swiping of the necklace, but I didn't until you mentioned it.
But I think I'm clear on most of this now, and I agree with your reading of it.
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Okay, Greg...somebody you know MUST be a "Buffy" fan and probably records the show.
There's no such thing as an accident...you stumbled onto this thread for a reason..it's your karma to get "into" the "Buffy" phenomenon.
Hey! It's THE best show on TV, ever...you could do a lot WORSE.
Of course, you'll have to watch "Angel," too...
: )
Ron
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Sorry, Ron, I haven't even started on X-Files, and I'm still catching up on the Simpsons in a hit and miss fashion.
I guess if I haven't caught it from the start, then I probably shouldn't attempt.
"There's only so many donuts in the world - you can't eat all of them, so you pick and choose."
I did manage to get caught up on Babylon 5 after skipping the first season (which isn't missing much).
Plus, that little matter of the Ph.D., well it does cut into my time just a little...work, significant other, house...so many donuts, so little time...sigh...
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Posted: |
Nov 14, 2001 - 3:50 PM
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By: |
Ron Pulliam
(Member)
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Last night's "Buffy" was pretty cool, but Willow has really upset the harmony of the Scoobie gang. Giles' departure was a given, and now Tara has gone, too.
It's the previews that have me salivating with Willow f-i-n-a-l-l-y releasing that other witch from the spell that has had her a mouse for the past few seasons (anyone remember when she was turned into a mouse? Wasn't it the episode in which Joyce and all the Sunnydale parents were ready to burn all witches at the stake? And does anyone recall when this witch made a brief, albeit hilarious, reappearance? It was in a show when Willow and Buffy were university freshmen...Willow was trying to make some spells work. She uttered a phrase that transformed the mouse into the witch. Just as quickly, Willow said something else and the witch reverted to being a mouse. I had thought the writers might have forgotten about her. Apparently, they forget nothing!).
Since last night's ep's plot was blatantly designed to further/hasten Tara's departure (what with Willow's violation of her promise not to use witchraft), it's interesting to note the assumptions to which the characters jumped when awakening with no memories. Spike and Giles fared best, I thought...loved their repartee when they guessed they were father and son...even the hug was funny.
It was also neat seeing the tentative discovery of attraction between Willow and Tara ("I think I'm kind gay!" Willow exclaims to Dawn).
The screaming every time they saw a vamp was way cool. Loved the idea of "Joan the Superhero" and Spike's version of his being noble and on a quest of redemption.
I also liked seeing Xander duking it out with the sewer vamp. It's been a while since he was given a chance to do more than cower.
Giles and Tara are gone. Dawn wouldn't hug Tara goodbye. Buffy and Spike are seen tonsil wrestling (a good thing or ewwwww???) by the stairs in The Bronze. And a disconsolate Willow, by all accounts, is ready to run amok with her power.
All in all, it's quite a season, thus far. And the music score last night did its job admirably. I wasn't aware of it at all!
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Posted: |
Nov 16, 2001 - 3:20 PM
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By: |
Cooper
(Member)
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It's always great to watch Team Buffy take what would be a gimmick plot in the hands of other series and really do something with it.
The amnesia was put to great use in heightening the drama of the Willow/Tara split. Damned bittersweet when you can see the core of their attraction demonstrated again in all that, uh, panting...and know that it will, once memory returns, have to be put aside as the fundamental orientations--not sexual, but moral; i.e., with magic--of their characters move farther and farther apart.
Great technique in using visual cues to convey meaning, with Tara and others spying the crushed crystal used in Willow's spell. Just a quick shot of that, another of Tara and Willow tearing up, beginning to cry...and we know that they know it's over, and we know they know why. Master storytelling. The same's true of how we can actually watch Buffy's angst weigh her down again as her memory returns. Not too many shows out there these days would dream of asking the audience to make an inference based on what they've been shown.
And again, another really well rounded episode, with some great humor--Anya's random, accidental Bunny conjuring had me rolling on the floor--and some sad, somber drama. I didn't watch next week's trailers, as UPN's making them a little spoiler-heavy. But I wonder, will they "Anne Heche" willow? Is it back to boys' town for her. Or... Okay, I did catch a glimpse of something, of the Willster gal-palling with some new girl. My hunch then, is that she'll hook up with another wiccan who is more in line with her own devil-may-care attitude toward magic, precipitating her turn toward the dark side.
Joan:
Awesome point about Buffy's likely "use" of Spike. This does smell of a psychological band aid... Spike, that poor bastad.
Ron:
Just re-read your post. Wow, was that Amy Willow was with? Looks like she and Willow were getting along nicely, but how nicely?
All:
Speaking of Amy, I saw--for the first time--"Bewitched, Bothered and Bewildered" the other night, and thought it was totally brilliant. One of the most entertaining episodes ever. It was a nightmare, but I couldn't help envy Xander's predicament. Buffy's rain-coat come-on was the ultimate illustration of being spellbound; she was most definitely...most compellingly, alluringly not herself there. Before things went overboard with the entire female population of Sunnydale gunning for the Xand-man, you could almost appreciate how Willow is currently hard-pressed to lay off the magic button, once you see the possibilities. A total hoot of an ep.
All:
So where the heck is Debi?
--Cooper
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Ron,
They cut out the overture which previews some of the tunes before Buffy sings "Going Through the Motions."
They also cut out the whole second half of "I've Got A Theory," which starts when Buffy sings
I've got a theory: It doesn't matter/
What can't we face if we're together?
And they cut out the scene where Dawn awakens in Sweet's lair. She sits up on a table and makes some ballet-style moves, like in a really classic old musical.
And they shortened the song "Walk Through the Fire." But thank God that number still had Spike's verse "I hope she fries -- I'm free if that bitch dies/ I'd better help her out."
The cut version seemed hasty and choppy if you'd been treated to the whole thing first.
If anybody's interested, the original ran 51:30 or so without commercials. I didn't time the cut version, but it probably ran about 46 minutes to fit the timeslot.
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The more I play it, the more I like it. And I liked it to begin with. So, when does the CD come out?
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