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Posted: |
Apr 20, 2009 - 10:42 AM
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By: |
Mark Ford
(Member)
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I've never heard of Angela Morley (or her previous alter ego)...
Wtf? She orchestrated STAR WARS and/or SUPERMAN!!
Without her, STAR WARS wouldn't sound like the STAR WARS we know.
Hey, it's not like all the orchestrators are listed on the credits for those films, especially ones brought in to help out on a few cues. As an example that you gave, the credits listed for Superman: Herbert Spencer & Arthur Morton, the primary orchestrators. Angela Morely is not THE orchestrator here. And just because someone, even great orchestrators work on a score doesn't necessarily mean they are responsible for the overall sound for that score. Composers such as Williams, Goldsmith & Herrmann, to name just a few, write fairly meticulous, detailed scores which are pretty specific about the overall orchestrations (Herrmann doing all the duties). Some of the great orchestrators are sometimes more musical copiests, adding bits here and there but not creating the overall orchestral sound. Depends on the composer they are working with and their working relationship.
So before you blast someone who hasn't heard of an orchestrator who worked on a few cues on a score and may not even be listed in the album credits, and make bold statements such as "wouldn't sound like" which is a huge overstament to say the least, in order to belittle someone, stop and consider your motives and the civility of your statements. I try to always be civil in my postings and never try to belittle anyone. There are many things I know about scores, films and music that I'm sure you don't know, but I wouldn't use hyperbole to put you down. I might be taking your meaning wrong here, but when you write "WTF" you're trying to put me down. What you say may not be wrong or right, but it would help to drop such terms as WTF. Sorry if I've blown up over what may seem a trivial thing, but I'm not in the best of moods and just get tired of some of the less than civil postings here at times. OK, I've vented! 
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Posted: |
Apr 20, 2009 - 11:29 AM
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By: |
Stephan
(Member)
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So before you blast someone who hasn't heard of an orchestrator who worked on a few cues on a score and may not even be listed in the album credits, and make bold statements such as "wouldn't sound like" which is a huge overstament to say the least, in order to belittle someone, stop and consider your motives and the civility of your statements.
Beware, beware, my friends: ;-))
http://www.jazzprofessional.com/profiles/morley.htm
"“Do you know the scene in Star Wars where Luke goes down into the Death Star trench and the voice says ‘Use the Force, Luke?’” Morley asks, as if anyone would not know the famous moment. That’s my orchestration.” So is the ice-palace music in Superman. (“Lots of sliding glissando’ she says, in a disapproving tone.) And scenes in a parade of films scored by Williams and others, including E.T, The Empire Strikes Back, The Right Stuff, Karate Kid and The Verdict. She has also provided what the film biz calls “source music,” or music that happens in real time within the movie. The Viennese waltzes in Schindler’s List are her arrangements. Ditto the Christmas songs in Home Alone."
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Contrary to his claim, it ISN'T stealing.
It's not a legal issue - it's a moral and ethical one.
On the contrary, there have been any number of lawsuits which have already established some level of precedence and case law for users hyperlinking to copyrighted/unauthorized material. I suspect an incident like this would fall under the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) although I can't say if this specific incident would be contributory copyright infringement.
Furthermore, most service providers also have pretty specific guidelines and regulations in their terms of use, and the owner of copyrighted material can request the service provider to remove the links and/or content. The MPAA and RIAA have successfully launched lawsuits against websites linking to infringing content.
It's not a "crime" insofar that it's not a felony - the police aren't going to go knocking on someone's door - but almost certainly it would fall under law of torts. As a personal opinion you might feel it's not a "legal" issue - but this sort of thing have led to lawsuits elsewhere.
Tort law would mean trying to prove that they suffered financial injury from the covers being shown ahead of time. That would be difficult to do, especially in this economic climate. If Jerry Goldsmith can't sell 3000 titles, then it would take a leap to claim that Angela Morley (who, for all her talent is not as celebrated as Jerry Goldsmith)could have if the covers hadn't been shown.
And even if the plaintiff did win, their victory would be mitigated by the fact that their bad practice caused it to be leaked in the first place.
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Posted: |
Apr 23, 2009 - 7:37 AM
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By: |
Mark Ford
(Member)
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So before you blast someone who hasn't heard of an orchestrator who worked on a few cues on a score and may not even be listed in the album credits, and make bold statements such as "wouldn't sound like" which is a huge overstament to say the least, in order to belittle someone, stop and consider your motives and the civility of your statements.
Beware, beware, my friends: ;-))
http://www.jazzprofessional.com/profiles/morley.htm
"“Do you know the scene in Star Wars where Luke goes down into the Death Star trench and the voice says ‘Use the Force, Luke?’” Morley asks, as if anyone would not know the famous moment. That’s my orchestration.” So is the ice-palace music in Superman. (“Lots of sliding glissando’ she says, in a disapproving tone.) And scenes in a parade of films scored by Williams and others, including E.T, The Empire Strikes Back, The Right Stuff, Karate Kid and The Verdict. She has also provided what the film biz calls “source music,” or music that happens in real time within the movie. The Viennese waltzes in Schindler’s List are her arrangements. Ditto the Christmas songs in Home Alone."
Thank you for proving my point concerning her level of involvment in those scores. In her own words she mentions the single cue contributions she made to the orchestrations on those films (although she may have done more and just used those as examples). And to be honest, we don't know exactly how much she provided. It could have been how to clean up the base line in a passage to make it less dense sounding by raising the trombone line up a 5th and altering the lines of other instruments to replace the trombone line. Also, her comment about the glisses in Superman seem to indicate she didn't like them which means she must have been following someone's marching orders, presumably Spencer & Morton's or William's himself.
I'm not saying anything against her and I have no reason to, but it appears she was just one of many orchestrators that were needed late in the orchestration process to help out on some cues, which is quite common in fim scoring mainly due to time restrictions. So it's real hard to make a strong claim that those films wouldn't sound like they did without her in a broad sense of the term, but perhaps in the sounds of a cue here or there. AND the contribution may have been minimal at that!
Anyway, I was more urked by the manor of the post, not the content although that's what I addressed. Sorry if I blew up on you! In the scheme of things all I'm interested in is her work as a composer since that is what this part of the thread is about. Not knowing who she is as a composer is not that much of a leap as she is not exactly a household name like Goldsmith, Williams, Herrmann, Barry, Morricone, et. al.
By the way, I almost had the same reaction as you did when I read the exact thing from someone in a post about Les Baxter. But then I remembered my own lack of knowledge of Morley's existence and realized there are going to be composers out there that some know quite well and that others have never heard of. I wouldn't have jumped on them though, it was just a knee jerk response. Lesson learned!
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Wow, just saw this thread (which has fallen down a few pages)...
This Angela Morley fan is very happy at this news (no matter how it was released). When Morley passed a few months ago I idly thought it would be great if FSM or another label could investigate some of her work, and this score in particular. This should stand as a wonderful tribute to her.
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