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 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 2:06 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Just watched this for the first time.

It's a very good film, although not Altman's best; it's his take on the whole film noir/private dick genre. Of course, it doesn't look like the early noir classics, but Elliot Gould's version of Philipp Marlowe is clearly modelled on the Bogart character in films like THE MALTESE FALCON. From the cigarettes to the growling, mumbling, "cool guy" persona.

I'm sure I could write a whole article on the film, because it has many interesting layers and filmic effects that lend themselves to analysis. There is, of course, the almost Antonioni-inspired camera angles, witnessing the people and dialogues from afar (through windows etc.), an almost socio-anthropological, observational approach. And then there is the play with the soundtrack in true Godard fashion, a play with the diegetic and non-diegetic. In terms of speech, it is interesting how Altman externalizes Marlowe's thoughts through expressed monologue; he narrates his own actions. In terms of music, there is of course the Williams theme/song being played both as diegetic and non-diegetic throughout, segueing from car radios to door bells to grocery store muzak to characters humming the tune to actual non-diegetic use etc. The opening of the film is a dazzling display of this, and should be used in film score classes. Of course, I've been struggling to interpret the PURPOSE of this; what it signifies. Could it be the thread that binds them all together, a sort of comment that the only thing they have in common is a relation to this tune, and it kind of "mirrors" wherever the action is taking place? What is your opinions? I'm sure it's intended as more than just a gimmick.

A funny surprise was seeing none other than Arnold friggin' Schwarzenegger as a thug in the gang led by the Mark Rydell character (although he doesn't have any lines). Arnie in an Altman film?!? Who would have thought? big grin In terms of performances otherwise, Sterling Hayden clearly had lots of "acting room" in this film, perhaps a little too much. And, as mentioned earlier, it was fun to see director Rydell play a cheesy thug (with serious undertones), Williams' longtime collaborator.

I'm happy to have the score released on Varese, although I really don't need umpteenth variations on the theme. My personal favourite is actually the live performance with Harry Connick Jr., not available on the CD.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 2:33 PM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I keep trying to like this (& will carry on trying), but Elliot Gould can be a bit annoying. I think they were quite right in changing the ending (& Chandler was wrong!)....Oh, & a coke bottle doesn't break that easily!

EDIT: The best Philip Marlowe ever, Dick Powell in "Murder My Sweet" (Farewell My Lovely) 1944.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 2:49 PM   
 By:   Pedestrian Wolf   (Member)

Just watched this for the first time.

It's a very good film, although not Altman's best; it's his take on the whole film noir/private dick genre. Of course, it doesn't look like the early noir classics, but Elliot Gould's version of Philipp Marlowe is clearly modelled on the Bogart character in films like THE MALTESE FALCON. From the cigarettes to the growling, mumbling, "cool guy" persona.

I'm sure I could write a whole article on the film, because it has many interesting layers and filmic effects that lend themselves to analysis. There is, of course, the almost Antonioni-inspired camera angles, witnessing the people and dialogues from afar (through windows etc.), an almost socio-anthropological, observational approach. And then there is the play with the soundtrack in true Godard fashion, a play with the diegetic and non-diegetic. In terms of speech, it is interesting how Altman externalizes Marlowe's thoughts through expressed monologue; he narrates his own actions. In terms of music, there is of course the Williams theme/song being played both as diegetic and non-diegetic throughout, segueing from car radios to door bells to grocery store muzak to characters humming the tune to actual non-diegetic use etc. The opening of the film is a dazzling display of this, and should be used in film score classes. Of course, I've been struggling to interpret the PURPOSE of this; what it signifies. Could it be the thread that binds them all together, a sort of comment that the only thing they have in common is a relation to this tune, and it kind of "mirrors" wherever the action is taking place? What is your opinions? I'm sure it's intended as more than just a gimmick.

A funny surprise was seeing none other than Arnold friggin' Schwarzenegger as a thug in the gang led by the Mark Rydell character (although he doesn't have any lines). Arnie in an Altman film?!? Who would have thought? big grin In terms of performances otherwise, Sterling Hayden clearly had lots of "acting room" in this film, perhaps a little too much. And, as mentioned earlier, it was fun to see director Rydell play a cheesy thug (with serious undertones), Williams' longtime collaborator.

I'm happy to have the score released on Varese, although I really don't need umpteenth variations on the theme. My personal favourite is actually the live performance with Harry Connick Jr., not available on the CD.



I'm amazed that this is the first time you've seen the film - you certainly could write a whole article, but you'd have a lot of catching up to do as people have been writing about for decades now! I would actually rank this as Altman's best film, fighting neck and neck with MCCABE AND MRS. MILLER and NASHVILLE for the title. It does for noir what MCCABE AND MRS. MILLER did for the Western, deconstructing the genre and rendering all of the genre's cruelty and hopelessness painfully vulnerable. And I would suggest that Gould is channeling more of Humphrey Boggart's in THE BIG SLEEP, since they're, you know, playing the same character. The difference is that Gould and Altman reveal more of the vulnerable helplessness behind Marlowe's wiseass facade - the further into THE LONG GOODBYE you get, the more you realize that Marlowe's wisecracks are barely hiding the fact that he's terrified, clueless, and completely out of his element. Boggart always managed to seem like a badass even when the film had him play the sucker - Gould ultimately just comes across as pathetic and helpless, the single character in the film who is naive enough to doubt a friend's painfully obvious guilt. And the fact that John Williams' sad-sack song is repeated again and again in every corner of the diegesis just emphasizes the idea that Marlowe is always going to be stuck in this pathetic loop, doomed to be repeatedly betrayed, taken advantage of, and abandoned without end. I'm amazed at how innovative Williams was when he worked with Altman, and scores like this make me wish he'd had more chances to do so before the great director passed away. Easily one of the finest films that Williams was ever involved in.

Pedestrian Wolf

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 3:41 PM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

There is only one aspect of Robert Altman that irritates me. He was so non-conformist that he sometimes pushed his satire of movie conventions into the realm of idiocy. He did this in the one scene in the otherwise brilliant GOSFORD PARK where Stephen Fry plays the Inspector who comes in at the end of mysteries and usually solves the case. He makes him so stupid and unfunny that the worst Inspector Closseau sequence seems sensible in comparison. I am afraid too much of THE LONG GOODBYE strays into that area of satire. But Williams two scores for Altman were innovative and exciting from a, then, young new artist. A whole part of his life that seemed to have died when his wife passed away a few years later.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 4:00 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Yeah, at 41, Williams certainly proved his sophistication and understanding of the film medium in this film. And his capability beyond more traditional fare.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

By the way, how do you interpret the title "The Long Goodbye"? For or with whom is the 'long goodbye'?

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

By the way, how do you interpret the title "The Long Goodbye"? For or with whom is the 'long goodbye'?

I thought it had to do with the writer character (Roger Wade?), drinking himself to death. I've also read that Chandler meant it in reference to his elderly wife's own declining health. She was almost twenty years older than Chandler.

Haven't read the book in ten years--I'll have to give it another go.

 
 Posted:   Apr 27, 2009 - 6:11 PM   
 By:   spielboy   (Member)

and you forgot Vilmos Zsigmond stylish, soft scope photography in another Williams collaboration. smile

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 2:36 AM   
 By:   chriss   (Member)

I'm happy to have the score released on Varese, although I really don't need umpteenth variations on the theme. My personal favourite is actually the live performance with Harry Connick Jr., not available on the CD.

I've for some reason never liked Connick's performance, my favorite is the great Jack Sheldon version.
I would love to see a complete release of the score including the perhaps only "real" underscore cue late in the movie and that Percy Faith-esque version of the theme early used in the supermarket scene.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 2:39 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Of course, the Sinatra version is difficult to top as well, but I just felt that Connick captured some of the crooner style in a contemporary fashion.

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 5:13 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

Of course, the Sinatra version is difficult to top as well, but I just felt that Connick captured some of the crooner style in a contemporary fashion.

Sinatra? Please do tell: I can't think which song you are referring to. Many thanks.

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Of course, the Sinatra version is difficult to top as well, but I just felt that Connick captured some of the crooner style in a contemporary fashion.

Sinatra? Please do tell: I can't think which song you are referring to. Many thanks.


My mind must be playing tricks on me, because I could SWEAR Sinatra recorded a version of this song.

Edit: I was confusing it with the song "The Same Hello, the Same Goodbye" which Williams composed for Sinatra (with the Bergmans) in the 70's. Sorry.

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 7:41 AM   
 By:   Jim Phelps   (Member)

Some interesting reading regarding the novel:

http://www.markcoggins.com/essays/WTLG.html

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 9:22 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

Of course, the Sinatra version is difficult to top as well, but I just felt that Connick captured some of the crooner style in a contemporary fashion.

Sinatra? Please do tell: I can't think which song you are referring to. Many thanks.


My mind must be playing tricks on me, because I could SWEAR Sinatra recorded a version of this song.

Edit: I was confusing it with the song "The Same Hello, the Same Goodbye" which Williams composed for Sinatra (with the Bergmans) in the 70's. Sorry.


Thank you for the clarification ...

... not that I know the song The Same Hello, the Same Goodbye either ... I have no record of Sinatra recording it (but there are a couple of his last few albums I do not have, so maybe I'm missing it).

A Google search throws up Michael Feinstein as recording this song for an album called The Sinatra Project which would imply, one would have thought, that it was a Sinatra standard (though that album includes two other songs which are not in Sinatra's recording history either).

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

A Google search throws up Michael Feinstein as recording this song for an album called The Sinatra Project which would imply, one would have thought, that it was a Sinatra standard (though that album includes two other songs which are not in Sinatra's recording history either).

Actually, it never was recorded with Sinatra. See some more of the back story here:

http://www.jwfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1046

It's a lovely song, though, even as performed by Feinstein.

(and of course...the Williams song that I DID remember as performed by Sinatra quite excellently, is "Dream Away"....cripes, I'm in Confusion City today! smile).

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 9:38 AM   
 By:   MusicMad   (Member)

A Google search throws up Michael Feinstein as recording this song for an album called The Sinatra Project which would imply, one would have thought, that it was a Sinatra standard (though that album includes two other songs which are not in Sinatra's recording history either).

Actually, it never was recorded with Sinatra. See some more of the back story here:

http://www.jwfan.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1046

It's a lovely song, though, even as performed by Feinstein.

(and of course...the Williams song that I DID remember as performed by Sinatra quite excellently, is "Dream Away"....cripes, I'm in Confusion City today! smile).


Dream Away ... now that one, I do know! smile

 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 9:54 AM   
 By:   Jeff Eldridge   (Member)

I guess I'm pulling a Thor on Thor but...

http://filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=53365&forumID=1&archive=0

 
 
 Posted:   Apr 28, 2009 - 4:31 PM   
 By:   Sean   (Member)

One of Altman's most exquisitely realized experiments. A brilliant film.

And the sardonic Williams' score is a stroke of pure genius. Especially since "The Long Goodbye" is actually a terrific song!

cool

 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2017 - 10:10 AM   
 By:   dogplant   (Member)

By the way, how do you interpret the title "The Long Goodbye"? For or with whom is the 'long goodbye'?

His cat.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 10, 2017 - 1:11 PM   
 By:   Hurdy Gurdy   (Member)

In Quartet's definitive release of this score, I find that Clydie King rehearsal/ad-lib track endlessly fascinating.
Just hearing her chat and even bitch and moan about the song is a real time capsule of that era.

 
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