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 Posted:   Apr 12, 2010 - 5:45 PM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

I've been reading recently about priests who somehow didn't think their sexual activities (hetero-, homo-, or juvenile) were in conflict with their vow of celibacy. Humans have a nearly infinite capacity for self-deception.

Back on topic: How did the Germans ever make a film of PYGMALION, a story that would seem to revolve entirely around the particulars of the English language and class system?

 
 Posted:   Apr 12, 2010 - 10:59 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Back on topic: How did the Germans ever make a film of PYGMALION, a story that would seem to revolve entirely around the particulars of the English language and class system?


It's a fascinating topic. One thing that immediately occurs to me as you say that is that "My Fair Lady," the musical based on "Pygmalion" has been translated into many different languages, lyrics and all, and poses exactly the problem you mention. One amusing pastime for a Lerner & Loewe fanatic, like, say . . . me, is to listen to the different cast albums and find out what the most irritating pronunciation error happens to be among the lower classes of the country in which that particular language is spoken. (Although all the adaptations retain the original play's London setting.)

One of my favorites is the original 1964 Israeli cast in Hebrew. (There's a later Hebrew recording with a different translation, and there's also a Yiddish LP of the score, if you can believe such a thing.) Just by listening to that version, you can tell that Israelis apparently have a class-related disagreement as to the proper pronunciation of the "R" sound. I'm not a speech therapist, but it sounds to me like proper broadcast-standard Hebrew is to pronounce the "R" (or Hebrew letter "raish") as you would in Spanish, by "rrrolling" it, as it were. An improper, or at least more colloquial-sounding "raish" comes more from the back of the throat, and might sound more like a French pronunciation of the letter "R."

Many hit Broadway musicals were translated into Hebrew by Dan Almagor, an important Israeli literary figure and poet. He discusses the process in this article:

http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1998/11/The%20Rain%20in%20Spain

In devising grammatical error "substitutes" for the cockney ones heard in Shaw's original English version, Almagor observed the Hebrew speech patterns of Israeli toddlers, and made use of their more commonly made mistakes.

Translators in other countries must have had similar challenges, and may have come up with similar solutions.


As for the German film version pre-dating the more famous English one, LEST WE FORGET!

Here's a headline from the Sunday November 30, 1913 New York Times, Magazine Section, Page SM1:

BERNARD SHAW SNUBS ENGLAND AND AMUSES GERMANY; He Forbids the Production of "Pygmalion" in London, But Permits Berlin to See It So Playgoers There May Not Be Prejudiced by Unfavorable English Criticism; - A Characteristic Comedy on Phonetics.

A NEW way to make your play successful -- refuse to sell it. This is what George Bernard Shaw has done in the instance of his latest comedy, "Pygmalion," etc., etc.

 
 Posted:   Apr 13, 2010 - 2:55 PM   
 By:   Ebab   (Member)

One amusing pastime for a Lerner & Loewe fanatic, like, say . . . me, is to listen to the different cast albums and find out what the most irritating pronunciation error happens to be among the lower classes of the country in which that particular language is spoken. (Although all the adaptations retain the original play's London setting.)

I don’t see the equivalent in German at all, at least not in the scope that Eliza’s character requires to be effective.

German is rich in dialects, so pronunciation can define the speaker’s regional origin, but characteristics are much less distinctive regarding class, at least if compared to Edwardian London.

There is a (more or less artificial) German “standard” pronunciation that is taught (but not rigidly enforced) in schools. So the degree in which a person speaks in regional dialect as opposed to the “standard” pronunciation might serve as an indication for his or her degree of education and social class. There are, however, regions in Germany where the local dialect is completely acceptable in any social circle, and the “upper class” may even take pride in speaking the local dialect to some degree. Another distinction is the breadth of vocabulary that a person uses, but that is not a thing that a listener can hear with the first sentence, like Eliza’s character requires.

Of course, there are other indications for the educational background of a person, for instance in the pronunciation of foreign words. “Saison”, for example, is supposed to be pronounced with the French accent in standard German. A bastardized working-class version may sound like “seh-songg”. (Marlene Dietrich made very conscious use of that particular pronunciation in a song called „Ich bin die fesche Lola“ in order to indicate the character.) However – and this is where I think Germany was decidedly different compared to England – you would hear these bastardized versions quite often also in the upper classes, from people who wouldn’t care in spite of their education, and it would still be accepted socially. “An Englishman's way of speaking absolutely classifies him” – in this totality, there simply wasn’t an equivalent in Germany.

In this background justifiably, the German translators of “My Fair Lady” took an easy road, and simply gave Eliza the local dialect of the period capital of Germany, Berlin – even though many members of the upper class spoke the same dialect to some degree. Why did it still work? Because Professor Higgins’ speech very clearly establishes the class and fate defining value that language had in Edwardian London. The German audience accepted that fact for England even if there was never a total equivalent in German language.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 6, 2021 - 8:25 AM   
 By:   John B. Archibald   (Member)

So, Sigerson, if you are still aware and responsive, how did your foray into the German PYGMALION turn out?
And, BTW, I’m sure you’re aware of the 2018 revival of MY FAIR LADY at Lincoln Center, in New York, directed by Bartlett Sher, who decided to stage an ending more in keeping with Shaw’s original. I saw it in matinee in August of 2018, principally because I’d heard the Eliza understudy was a better singer. She and the production were great, as well as a wonderful Harry Haydon Patton as Higgins, and a laconic Diana Rigg as his regal mother.
And the restored ending I found profoundly moving.
I hope you and yours are well and safe.

 
 
 Posted:   Dec 6, 2021 - 9:19 AM   
 By:   TheAvenger   (Member)

Battle of Britain

 
 Posted:   Dec 6, 2021 - 10:56 AM   
 By:   Nicolai P. Zwar   (Member)

I never heard of Wolfgang Peterson being gay and find it somewhat unlikely. On the other hand, Roland Emmerich, another German director who works a lot in Hollywood, is gay.

 
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