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To be honest I don't care about what percentage is Barry and what percentage is Thorne. It's just a fabulous score and I would love to be able to play it in its entirety.
Cheers
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I saw this recently for the first time.
I did notice the score and it was the best part of the film.
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Great film with a great ending. The score is short, and would make a good double bill on CD with Seven-Percent Solution since they're both Holmes movies, not to mention both from Universal.
Doc loch pointed it out on page one - although that was years ago!
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Posted: |
Aug 27, 2018 - 5:13 PM
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By: |
Alex Klein
(Member)
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I agree that JB should get co-composer credit on Bond theme. My point was that he indeed provided enough musical information to get composer credit for TMBG. As far as the Bond theme goes, I've never heard a good explanation of the origin of the big band middle section. I think the courts ruled that it had some connection with a Norman piece, but the reference was vague. I don't think it's from Good Sign, Bad Sign. If anyone out there can shed light on that, I'd love to know. As far as the vamp goes, I think Barry, admittedly, swiped it from Artie Shaw's Nightmare and possibly from Sibelius (Alex Ross wrote an article on this), but nobody owns the Bond theme and the vamp the way that John Barry does.
The most accepted theory by the court during the Sunday Times vs. Norman suit is that the bebop section was based on the ascending bass line in 'Dr. No's Fantasy' right after the electric guitar finishes playing the two-phrase theme. This analysis was proposed by Stanley Sadie, a very prestigious musicologist who was hired by Norman's defense team.
If you want my opinion (I have a music degree, for what it's worth), Barry definitely based the harmonic concept of the bebop section on 'Dr. No's Fantasy', but he wrote his own melodic material over it (which in turn is clearly based on the 'Bad Sign, Good Sign' guitar riff). In plain music terms, the bebop section's melody is a sophisticated variation of the 'Bad Sign, Good Sign' riff, and its bass is from 'Dr. No's Fantasy', all of which are testaments of Barry's brilliant skills as an arranger.
Alex
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Exactly.
The 'problem' with They Might Be Giants (and other Universal titles like Boom! and Follow Me) is that it was recorded in London. Had it been recorded in the US, on a Universal scoring stage, by Universal staffers or contractors, I have no doubt the recordings would have been vaulted and preserved with care.
This is the problem with a lot of Barry's 60s and early 70s scores—even for films released by major studios—is that they were not not recorded on movie studios' own facilities by studios' own staff. Many were recorded for independent film companies that went bust thirty years ago.
And it seems many of them are lost now.
Sometimes, like with Deadfall, the studio has something like post-edited mono music only track, but, again, like Deadfall, you can hear that a lot of cues were cut and dialled out prematurely. It's a poor substitute.
It's all a very great pity.
Cheers
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A Kino-Lorber Blu-Ray release is no indication of a CD, but I would like to say this:
About 20 years ago, two volumes of 'The Film Music of Ken Thorne' came out, one of which had Murphy's War on it. That was another situation where Barry wrote key themes but Thorne scored the movie.
I believe these CDs came from Ken's personal copies of the music and whilst the CTS master recordings may well be lost, I wondered if Ken Thorne kept a copy of Giants—and whether a CD release is possible from that.
Cheers
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