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With Pat Neal's passing on Sunday, I just revisited the expanded Charles Gerhardt suite on the Postal Service CELEBRATING THE CLASSICS cd. I've admired it greatly for decades, going back to the mid 70's as a kid on the old lp, but having watched the movie again recently, it struck me how slow the tempo is, way slower than the OST available from BYU. Sonically, in terms of orchestration and ambience, it's terrifically accurate, but that tempo is bugging me.... it's TOO slow.
Still, the extra music is just grand!
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All I have of THE FOUNTAINHEAD is Gerhardt's NOW VOYAGER CD. I have got to give that suite another listen.
I note from the times listed at soundtrackcollector that yours is five minutes longer.
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Posted: |
Aug 10, 2010 - 10:29 PM
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By: |
Ed Nassour
(Member)
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With Pat Neal's passing on Sunday, I just revisited the expanded Charles Gerhardt suite on the Postal Service CELEBRATING THE CLASSICS cd. I've admired it greatly for decades, going back to the mid 70's as a kid on the old lp, but having watched the movie again recently, it struck me how slow the tempo is, way slower than the OST available from BYU. Sonically, in terms of orchestration and ambience, it's terrifically accurate, but that tempo is bugging me.... it's TOO slow.
Still, the extra music is just grand!
I find that with most replayed versions of film scores. When they scored the film, Steiner was working to strict timings. When Gerhardt did it he could set his own tempo. He did an excellent job. Gerhardt was one of the best at conducting film music. I have the complete RCA Great Film Scores series on LP and a couple duplicated on CD.
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If you can handle the slight surface noise, Brigham Young University released a CD of the complete original score from acetate masters. One of Steiner's finest, in my opinion.
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Many years back I was having a conversation with Ray Harryhausen and Arch Stanton about the scores to Ray's films. Talk moved on to other composers and scores when we asked if there was a composer he wanted but never got. His answer was Max Steiner. At that time he said that Steiner's THE FOUNTAINHEAD score was his favorite. I've since heard that he's named other scores. But back then, in the 1990s, it was this score.
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Many years back I was having a conversation with Ray Harryhausen and Arch Stanton about the scores to Ray's films. Talk moved on to other composers and scores when we asked if there was a composer he wanted but never got. His answer was Max Steiner. At that time he said that Steiner's THE FOUNTAINHEAD score was his favorite. I've since heard that he's named other scores. But back then, in the 1990s, it was this score.
I would think Steiner might have been a tad out of Schneer's price range. He was a tightwad, and it showed. Steiner didn't score any film after 1965, but there was a 6 year window before he died in which he may have considered an independent assignment That would have only left GWANGI as a possibility, since Hammer controlled his only other movie during that 6 years. Ah, speculation.
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Posted: |
Aug 11, 2010 - 10:00 PM
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By: |
Ed Nassour
(Member)
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Many years back I was having a conversation with Ray Harryhausen and Arch Stanton about the scores to Ray's films. Talk moved on to other composers and scores when we asked if there was a composer he wanted but never got. His answer was Max Steiner. At that time he said that Steiner's THE FOUNTAINHEAD score was his favorite. I've since heard that he's named other scores. But back then, in the 1990s, it was this score.
I would think Steiner might have been a tad out of Schneer's price range. He was a tightwad, and it showed. Steiner didn't score any film after 1965, but there was a 6 year window before he died in which he may have considered an independent assignment That would have only left GWANGI as a possibility, since Hammer controlled his only other movie during that 6 years. Ah, speculation.
Perhaps not. Back then nobody working in the movies earned the kind of salaries they do today. Even adjusted for inflation, today's top stars and behind the scenes people earn a fantastic amount of money.
Steiner didn't earn as much as you think. I read where he normally received between $5,000 and $10,000 per film. On the other hand by the late 1950s, Tiomkin was earning $50,000 per score. Tiomkin was the highest paid of all the 'Golden Age' composers.
Today a top film composer can earn a million per picture.
The highest paid individual during the 'Golden Age' was Louis. B. Mayer who was earning over a million dollars a year by the time Nick Schenck fired him in 1951.
On the other hand, MGM's top composer Herbert Stothart was earning $50,000 a year.
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I would think Steiner might have been a tad out of Schneer's price range.
That's what Harryhausen said. So you've got to wonder what Herrmann was getting.
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Steiner didn't earn as much as you think. I read where he normally received between $5,000 and $10,000 per film. On the other hand by the late 1950s, Tiomkin was earning $50,000 per score. Tiomkin was the highest paid of all the 'Golden Age' composers.
Today a top film composer can earn a million per picture.
The highest paid individual during the 'Golden Age' was Louis. B. Mayer who was earning over a million dollars a year by the time Nick Schenck fired him in 1951.
On the other hand, MGM's top composer Herbert Stothart was earning $50,000 a year.
Mayer was merely the highest-paid executive (any any industry) in America during the 1940s. Some stars actually earned much more: at the peak of her popularity during the late 1930's, Fox's Olympic skater-star Sonja Henie made around $1.3 million per year, and Charlie Chaplin, Mary Pickford and Douglas Fairbanks made vastly more than that in the late 'teens to the mid-1920's (though the three were also the founders and co-owners of United Artists).
Herbert Stothart was too expensive at 1/10 the price (which was a straight weekly salary, and not paid picture-by-picture). It's amazing how shameless self-promoter Tiomkin was able to bamboozle studios and producers into paying his inflated fees, especially on films where he wasn't asked to write a tune for a stand-alone song, a la HIGH NOON.
And Max Steiner certainly wouldn't have cost Charles Schneer more than Herrmann did, especially since Steiner was, by the mid-1950's, experiencing severe money troubles and was having to fight with Jack Warner over ever penny in salary.
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Posted: |
Aug 12, 2010 - 10:05 AM
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By: |
Ed Nassour
(Member)
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Some stars actually earned much more: at the peak of her popularity during the late 1930's, Fox's Olympic skater-star Sonja Henie made around $1.3 million per year
Sonja Henie had a been a gold medal Olympic skating champion by the time Fox signed her to a multi-picture deal which is why she earned far more than her co-star Tyrone Power. But Henie's career in films lated only about ten years. A shrewd investor, Henie died a multi-millionaire. But over a million a year? Her salary averaged around $300,000 per picture. She made two films a year only in 1938 and 1939.
In the 1930's, MGM was paying it's top male star Clark Gable $4000 a week ($208,000 a yr) while Mayer raked in over a million annually. And yes, Mayer was the highest salaried exec in the US. And Gable was earning half that before he won an Oscar for Best Actor while on loan-out to Columbia.
Herbert Stothart was too expensive at 1/10 the price (which was a straight weekly salary, and not paid picture-by-picture). It's amazing how shameless self-promoter Tiomkin was able to bamboozle studios and producers into paying his inflated fees, especially on films where he wasn't asked to write a tune for a stand-alone song, a la HIGH NOON.
Meaning Stothart was overpaid back then? I believe his pay was commensurate with what Alfred Newman was earning at Fox. Stothart did work on a lot of films. In fact, he probably worked himself to an early death. He wasn't what I'd consider to be one of the better film composers, but he definitely had talent.
This notion that Tiomkin was a "shameless promotor" is utter nonsense. Tiomkin set his own salary and studios paid it. They wanted him. That's called capitalism. Tiomkin must have been desired since he always got his asking price. I'd say he was a shrewd businessman as well as a talented composer. Cary Grant did the same thing by always preferring go independent and then demand a huge salary. Grant was much higher paid than stars who remained under contract such as Robert Taylor at MGM. And some actresses such as Katharine Hepburn did what Grant did which was to go independent. Nothing wrong with it. Or were they also shameless promoters?
And Max Steiner certainly wouldn't have cost Charles Schneer more than Herrmann did, especially since Steiner was, by the mid-1950's, experiencing severe money troubles and was having to fight with Jack Warner over ever penny in salary.
Steiner could have learned a lesson from Tiomkin. Don't sign a long-term studio contract.
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Posted: |
Aug 12, 2010 - 10:11 AM
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By: |
John Morgan
(Member)
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Steiner didn't earn as much as you think. I read where he normally received between $5,000 and $10,000 per film. On the other hand by the late 1950s, Tiomkin was earning $50,000 per score. Tiomkin was the highest paid of all the 'Golden Age' composers.
Steiner had two 7 year contracts with Warner Bros that lasted to the early 50s. During his contract days, he didn't get paid per film, but a yearly salary that was somewhat over $100,000. This way Jack Warner and Forbstein or later Heindorf could sneak in as many films as they could to his always overworked schedule. They also could loan him out. He would make extra money, but most of the fee went back to Warner Bros. Although Steiner mostly worked for Warners in the 50s, it was a freelance basis per individual film. Steiner was never a good businessman like Tiomkin and could be talked into almost anything. Steiner was always helping others out when they got into trouble. Heindorf was loaned to Goldwyn for the Danny Kaye film UP IN ARMS. He ran out of time, and Steiner ended up writing almost the entire underscore, but since Steiner was moonlighting, he couldn't take screen credit. Same with THIS IS CINERAMA. When Orson Welles did CITIZEN KANE, he made sure Herrmann's fee was the same as Steiner's.
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Posted: |
Aug 13, 2010 - 12:25 PM
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By: |
Ed Nassour
(Member)
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This notion that Tiomkin was a "shameless promotor" is utter nonsense. Tiomkin set his own salary and studios paid it. They wanted him. That's called capitalism. Tiomkin must have been desired since he always got his asking price. I'd say he was a shrewd businessman as well as a talented composer. Cary Grant did the same thing by always preferring go independent and then demand a huge salary. Grant was much higher paid than stars who remained under contract such as Robert Taylor at MGM. And some actresses such as Katharine Hepburn did what Grant did which was to go independent. Nothing wrong with it. Or were they also shameless promoters?
It has nothing to do with "capitalism." Through that self-promotion Tiomkin was able to persuade gullible producers, who, by just about everyone's admission knew little, if anything about music, that he was a better composer than he actually was. They hired him because they were led to believe that they couldn't afford not to hire him which, of course, was hardly the case.
Once again, that's just plain silly. Producers are gullible? Not the sharks I knew growing up in the biz. Many would sell their own mothers to make a buck or more importantly, to produce a hit film.
Tiomkin deserved all he could get. After all, he was immensely popular among moviegoers. He was the very first Hollywood composer to successfully introduce a song into a film score. The balled sung by Tex Ritter in "High Noon" was a milestone in the development of film scoring. With the exception of Victor Young, Tiomkin's soundtrack LPs out-sold any other film score LP. I believe his LP for "The Alamo" was in print continuously for three decades. It continued to sell well when Columbia issued it on CD. Tiomkin was nominated 22 times for an Oscar and won four golden statues. Tiomkin also won 8 Golden Globe awards plus 3 Laurel Awards. He more than proved his worth.
Gullible. That's funny.
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I'm watching this tonight. I'm looking forward to it.
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Does that mean it'll be your first time seeing it?
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I refuse to watch, read or listen to anything that has to do with Ayn Rand.
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