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Posted: |
Jul 12, 2011 - 4:51 AM
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By: |
Thor
(Member)
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NO SPOILERS HERE; YOU CAN READ ON!
Had to make a few shortcuts in the headline there as the title is too long. Anyways, I couldn't find a more general thread about film and score beyond trailers, speculation etc., but please correct me if I'm wrong.
I just came back from the press screening, and I was quite impressed. I was too old to ever connect properly to the story (I was 23 when the first film came out), but I've seen them all and found pleasure in the filmatic elements. And of course, you'd have to be a pretty tough nail NOT to like the universe, characters. It speaks to the child in all of us.
Anyways, while the film seemed a bit rushed at times (trying to nail all the pivotal moments of the novel, I'm sure), it felt complete and satisfying as a conclusion. There was one scene, in particular (a montage/flashback of sorts) that was genuinely moving. And of course, things are wrapped up neatly in the end, although I didn't really buy the make-up of the main cast as 40-year olds. I think it's the best film in the series after ORDER OF THE PHOENIX.
I've never been a big fan of Desplat, and this didn't win me over either. Far too many of those rumbling ostinatos in the action sequences that go nowhere. However, there were a couple of nice moments, including a flight scene where he got to soar a bit. Also, the Williams themes are more present this time. Hedwig's Theme appears at a couple of crucial moments related to Harry Potter, and there are bits of his original Hogwarts material too. I loved that, gave me the chills!
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Harry Potter never spoke to any part of me - save the one that had read A Wizard Of Earthsea in 5th grade and noticed how much stuff J.K.Rowling cribbed from superior writers. Add to that the overarching moral of "You're born with your status, wealth and ability - don't bother learning or advancing" and you have a series that is a complete disconnect.
Hmm. Which superior writers do you mean? And where do you see that overaching moral?
If it wasn't for the first four scores (which I still think are pretty poor for Williams), I don't think I could bring myself to care about these things at all. Poorly written books, badly made films (though the third and fourth were onto a nice balance).
Pretty poor for Williams? Wow, you really don´t like HP at all, do you?
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Posted: |
Jul 12, 2011 - 8:08 AM
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By: |
nxbusby491
(Member)
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Totally agree Busby. I lost interest after the 3rd film... mostly because of Williams' absence. I know it is crazy to not be into a film just because of the score but I couldn't connect with any of the latter films because of the music. How cool would it have been to bring Williams' back for the Deathly Hollows 2fer... I wonder if he was asked and denied it.
I thought he stated somewhere, he'll only write scores for Steven Spielberg from now on. I could be wrong. Hope I'm wrong.....
For me, in a way, the Harry Potter series really is the first film series to abandon the more classic type of film scoring when it comes to epic series that I grew up on in the 80's/90's. Maybe thats why its received so much indifference. I really like the music from Desplat, but when you have grown up with Star Wars, Trek, Indiana Jones, Back to the Future, etc...with all of them having at least one connecting point musically, it was really a dissapointment when it came to Harry Potter. Even Star Trek, thoughout its many versions and composers, always had that introduction. Which was ok for it, because it never really had one overall story arc. (please dont begin to tell me about Hedwigs theme. Its always been shoehorned in for each film since Williams departure). I can certainly understand why Williams wouldn't have wanted to do the whole series, and thats fine. So in a way, Lord of the Rings might have been the very last cohesive and epic film series, in terms of music, we'll ever see. And yes, I'll count The Hobbit, as The Lord of the Rings. 
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Totally agree Busby. I lost interest after the 3rd film... mostly because of Williams' absence. I know it is crazy to not be into a film just because of the score but I couldn't connect with any of the latter films because of the music.
I couldn't connect after the third film because they lost their narrative. I haven't read any of the books, but was able to enjoy the first three films because they were complete stories.
It became very clear that from four on, you had to know the source material beforehand. And that makes for a weak film translation.
Aside from JW's main theme, I've never been crazy about the music either.
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I must say that I was severely disappointed with Hooper´s two scores after the impressive work of Williams and Doyle. I do love the Desplat-score to Part 1 (haven´t heard 2 yet) and can understand the impression of a chance missed.
But...
Recently, I gave Hooper´s scores a fresh chance - and weirdly, I found them pretty good. I guess the change in style and the more or less absence of Williams´ themes irritated me (and others) too much in order to appreciate what Hooper did.
Let´s be honest, the films themselves change very much during the course of the series - and that´s a good thing since that represents the maturing of the characters and the thickening plot with more and more darker themes.
I do think that Doyle and Hooper could not have incorporated too much of Williams because that simply would not have be adequate to the kind of story their films told.
Now, that things come full circle, Desplat - as I understand - lets some of the themes reappear.
But to me, HP is a different series than RINGS and has other things on its mind. Hey, it´s eight films by changing directors tracking about ten years in the life of the characters.
So, I do understand if people are disappointed. But I also understand why these expectations have not been met.
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Posted: |
Jul 12, 2011 - 10:17 AM
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By: |
John Mullin
(Member)
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There have been many prior series that lack any musical continuity. The "Alien" films, for instance. The first "Robocop" sequel has no relationship to the first score. And "Planet of the Apes" -- no continuity whatsoever, even when the same composer returned. So I don't know how you can say "Harry Potter" is "really is the first film series to abandon the more classic type of film scoring."
Exactly... I was thinking something similar when we saw X-MEN: FIRST CLASS a few weeks back. The films have not employed the same composer more than once or even continued any of the thematic material (not counting the Kamen cue at the beginning of the new movie). Musically, at least, I don't think the series has suffered at all for it. Likewise, I think the TWILIGHT movies have gotten very pretty scores from three different composers, without sharing themes or even really the same approach.
Maybe with POTTER the absence was harder to take because Williams had really established a strong continuity in the first three movies. I mean, he basically threw out a lot of his own secondary character themes while scoring Part 3, and introduced a bunch of new ideas. But in a way, I think that set the precedent for the composers who followed to more or less do the same thing. (It's also my favorite score he's written in the last decade).
I wasn't crazy about Patrick Doyle's score for part 4 when I first heard it, but I think most of that reaction was due to the fact that it was some different who brought their own sound. Now, I recognize that it's actually a pretty great score, but it took some getting used to (for me).
I think of part 5 (and Hooper's work on it) as sort of the TV movie version of Harry Potter... adequate, but nothing special. I found the music for part 6 to be wholly inadequate for the film it appeared in. Although there are certainly highlights, there are also big moments that Hooper just didn't effectively cover, either because he was unable to or David Yates didn't want the music getting too big. All the scenes of Draco with the vanishing cabinet... the bits where Hermionie is brooding over Ron... the scenes in the pensieve... they all needed strong, memorable music that drove the scenes, and they simply did not get it.
I enjoyed Deplat's work on 7pt1... he's not the world's most exciting composer, perhaps, but he's capable, he's interesting, and he has a clear "voice." That's all I really want from a composer on any movie.
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Hmm. Which superior writers do you mean? And where do you see that overaching moral?
Writers like ... oh every one before her? To quote Le Guin herself - "(Rowling) could have been more gracious about her predecessors... She has many virtues, but originality isn't one of them."
Orson Scott Card also told her to stuff it after she tried to sue the fan-made Lexicon book, though I found his comparison of Harry Potter to Ender's Game to be dubious at best.
Pretty poor for Williams? Wow, you really don´t like HP at all, do you?
He's done much better work before, during (Artificial Intelligence) and after (Indiana Jones 4, Revenge Of The Sith) his HP scores.
I see. But wouldn´t you say that most artists nowadays are influenced by (or even copy) previous ideas? Is it at all possible to come up with a purely original idea without shutting on off of a world full of predecessors?
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Maybe with POTTER the absence was harder to take because Williams had really established a strong continuity in the first three movies. I mean, he basically threw out a lot of his own secondary character themes while scoring Part 3, and introduced a bunch of new ideas. But in a way, I think that set the precedent for the composers who followed to more or less do the same thing. (It's also my favorite score he's written in the last decade).
I agree more with John. I think Williams was inspired by the fresh directorial voice he had in Alfonso Cuaron on that third movie. The wealth of engaging new material, with the gorgeous minor key melodies, the quaint period-instrument touches, and particularly his haunting choral setting of the three witches' incantation from Shakespeare's "MacBeth," actually make "Azkaban" one of my favorite Williams scores ever.
However, I think it's important to remember that he was no slouch in the new material department on the second movie, either. I was admittedly disappointed upon hearing it by my mistaken "Oh, just a re-tread" first impression. Further listening revealed beautiful new melodies for Fawkes the Phoenix, Gilderoy Lockhart, and Dobby the House Elf, and neat new shorter motifs for the flying car sequence, the chamber of secrets, and the Moaning Myrtle character.
I think the three Williams Potter scores stand with his Star Wars scores for consistent richness and inventiveness, and all three reward repeated listening. I hope we get expanded editions someday. You know there'll be enough rabid Potter devotees to support such a re-release.
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I don't know . . . "payoff" is kind of an arbitrary distinction sometimes. "Azkaban" has its own satisfying resolution in its finale, which combines new themes with the older established ones. What's the payoff in the Star Wars saga . . . Vader's funeral pyre or the dancing Ewoks number?
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), I will say, further to Thor's comment in his introductory post, that the make-up of the primary characters in the epilogue scene didn't work. In fact most of the audience went into hysterics.