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Posted: |
Aug 16, 2011 - 11:50 PM
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By: |
desplatfan1
(Member)
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People often quote the Bible, Tolkien and their Constitution with that sort of fidelity, yony. 
To me that isn't an answer to the question of why some themes weren't applied in part 2.
It's true. Still, he has done the same thing with Largo Winch 2, he wrote six themes for the first film, and in the sequel, he only used Nerio's theme (which is also an action motif for Largo) and "Largo's childhood" theme (in only one cue). He could have used the main Largo theme, but he made a new theme for Malunai which is used a lot in the score. Unfortunely, in the film, there's a lot of tracking of cues of the first film.
It's the same thing with DH Part 2, Desplat has written Lily's theme as the main theme of the film, replacing the Obliviate theme which barely sounds in a couple of cues. The theme is used to represent Lily, her story with Snape and how the characters of the film are related to her, and for the emotional side of the film. Desplat could have used the B phrase of the Obliviate theme, the one which represented the emotion and the tragedy of the Part 1 (which is barely used in Harry's Sacrifice), but he used Lily's theme for that. The Order of the Phoenix theme it's used to represent Neville in "Neville", "Battlefield" and "Showdown" (though in the film, there's a cello rendition of the theme, for the fallen ones).The Dumbledore's theme used once when the trio arrives to Hog's Head. Same thing with the Deathly Hallows theme, during the scene with Ollivander.
Another mayor theme for Part 2, it's the Battle of Hogwarts theme. Statues is played in a scene with characters like McGonagall, Luna and Flitwick. Desplat could have made new themes, he could have used the Lovegood theme (which never was in the film, only in the end credits), but he used the Hogwarts theme to represent them (for the statues and teachers, he uses the theme in the strings and brass, for Luna, in the cellos and bass flute).
In Battlefield and Showdown, Desplat adapts the horn melody of the theme to represent Voldemort's army and his fight with Harry. He could have used Voldemort/Death Eaters's theme from Part 1, but he used the horn melody to represent the army of Voldemort attacking the castle, and Voldemort fighting against Harry. The same melody which in his rendition in Statues and Courtyard Apocalypse, represents the students and teachers of Hogwarts fighting and dying to defend it. I don't know if I'm the only one who has noted it, but it's really clever from Desplat to do this.
What I'm saying, it's that, he could have used more of the original themes in Largo Winch and Deathly Hallows (the ones which the films needed), but at least, he tries to amend it by making new ones to represent the characters of the previous film, without the need of the original themes.
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Posted: |
Aug 17, 2011 - 10:05 AM
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By: |
desplatfan1
(Member)
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Yony, thanks for compiling all this information about the use of themes. I will definitely have it in mind when I listen to the score the next time. I can understand Desplat's comment that it was unfortunate for him that his involvement in part 2 wasn't settled yet. And I absolutely believe that it would have influenced the way how he scored part 1. But again - if incorporating the themes from part 1 more strongly had been his prime objective, I believe he could have pulled it off.
One question - in case you remember part 1 (the film) better than I do: Would there have been many instances where Lily's Theme could have been hinted at already? It really is the emotional centre of part 2, but where would it have fit in part 1? After all, Lily only gains a new meaning for the story after her shared history with Snape becomes clear. Before that, it was more about both parents, and her central role was not really clear. Or was it?
Maybe in the Godric's Hollow sequence. Though Desplat made the choral theme My Love Is Always Here, which it's like Christmas (like in the scene), but also represents Lily. Especially with the lyrics:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqmuNExKsG0
"Oh sleep sweet babe. For the stars brightly are gone.
Just sleep dear babe. Not a word will keep an icy sound.
Oh hush sweet babe. There is nothing you should fear.
Just hush dear babe. For my love is always here.
I lightly hold you safely in my arms.
Son of … lay calm tonight. Lay calm dear babe. Know my might will see? me through. Lay calm sweet babe. There’s a box (like a gift) waiting here for you."-
Unfortunely, it barely sounds in the movie.
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Interesting thoughts, yony.
With LW2, I wonder if a decision was made that he would only write the new material, and the old themes would be tracked in, because his timeframe was limited. It's an odd score though, that one. It doesn't quite have a heart, although the malunai theme comes close.
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Posted: |
Aug 18, 2011 - 4:44 PM
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By: |
desplatfan1
(Member)
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Thanks, yony, and interesting observation regarding the hymn. At the Godric's Hollow sequence, I still considered the story (and Harry) to be concerned with both parents as a union - both were equally important the story. In part 2, James Potter is really relegated to the sidelines, and it is Lily's story before she met James that becomes the cause and centre of much that happens.
And i think in order to contrast "Lily the girl" vs. "Lily the mother", having a new theme for her is fitting. Yes - perhaps her theme could have been a deconstructed version of the family theme, but I think that is not essential.
Exactly. In Godric's Hollow we remember both Harry's parents, and in Part 2, only Lily. That reminds me that, in Severus and Lily, Desplat plays a modified version of Lily's theme in the flute.
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Posted: |
Oct 5, 2011 - 4:36 AM
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By: |
Mike West
(Member)
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Mike, in theory I completely agree with you. I understand what you miss in this score and how your expectations were not met. I see in which ways the things you suggest make sense.
But I have to say that in practice (i.e. as soon as I actually hear Desplat's music), they don't bother me one bit (and I am a bit surprised about this myself). I found the music to fit the film perfectly for me, there was nothing that I was missing or that was rubbing me the wrong way when it was married to the picture. The flow, the tension, the emotions, all was pitch-perfect for me. And as for the score on CD - it's been a while that I had a listening experience that was so addictive. I listened to the CD quite often now - both in a relaxed atmosphere and when I was working - and I haven't grown tired of it yet.
The only thing that's a bit odd about the listening experience on CD is that it has quite a different sense of closure as the film does. It ends with the exhausted, tentative feelings of hope from "A New Beginning", where the film closed with Williams' optimistic music and brings the story full-circle. But of course it makes sense that way.
Gunnar, I actually like the score on it's own very much and it's brillant how Desplat unifies the sequence of scenes in the underground, where the same action motifs from the beginning come back in the end.
As you suggested, the score on the CD and the score in the film are a completely different animals because of the Williams in the end heard in the film.
But still considering this is the finale of a series and also the second in a pair of movies, this last chapter is so non-efficiently scored speaking of thematic ideas. Instead of inventing new ideas or using non-thematic music I think it would have so much more impact using themes already established in new ways.
For example the new remote control osinato music - imagine having a strong elegy here based on Hedwig's theme, or the music when Harry arrived in the first picture, or a desperate slow treatment of the Nimbus 2000 theme, or the "Window to the Past" theme.
Or the death of Voldemort, a powerful thematic moment with snippets of Hedwig and Voldemort.
PLUS
Desplat should at least have tried to form a cohesive whole with his own first part.
Thoug Lily's theme is very impressive and beautiful, and there is dramatic logic in bringing it into the last chapter but using it also for the dragon flight, I don't know. A piece developed out of the "Buckbeat flight" would have been much more cohesive speaking of dramatic logic. Lily's theme makes sense in all the scene's connected with Lily - that's how a leitmotiv is working in movies - that's the reason why I don't see the sense in not coming back to the death eater music.
Though I like the score, it feels like a lost opportunity
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The video proofs that the score is a lot better without the dry mastering. It barely had bass (You can't notice Desplat's synth pulse in Statues, The Grey Lady, In The Chamber Of Secrets and COurtyard Apocalypse), the choir barely had volume (Except in Battlefield) and it sounded like Zimmer's typical sound.
Part 1 had a better mastering (sounded orchestral, and the chorus had a decent volume). Here the instruments sounds better and some which it had a poor mix, had a better sound (the taiko and brass in Showdown, the trompets in Statues and Courtyard Apocalypse).
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The motif appears in Pt. 1 in "The Locket", so it might be a horcrux motif. The three notes are definitely there but it's either Desplat being very subtle or just a coincidence. My money's on the latter. Williams' theme isn't exactly very complex.
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Thanks for the reminder!