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 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 8:28 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

The first three bars of the Schumann theme are almost unaltered, but Horner then proceeds to develop and use it as if it were his own, which is great..

That is where Horner is different than other composers. If he's quoting a piece of music, he is literally quoting it. That is what he wants to make use of and it is obvious, it is blatant, it is intentional. That's the whole point. Horner was never interested in "homage", in "inspiration". If he wants a melody, he will use it. Then he will take it somewhere else but the foundation for it is clear.

This applies to both music he wrote himself, and music he is adapting into his own.

So what is it that makes people get all riled up over this, that he doesn't credit on the album's liner notes? What about the printed sheet music? What about the musicians who perform the music? What about the editors, engineers and other crew, or the filmmakers who may or may not have a passing familiarity with these things?

This is how Horner works, this is how he's always worked. People want to call him "lazy", people want to call him "hack", people want to drag out that article by Alex Ross from almost a decade ago just to make their point, as if Ross' one opinion is somehow more valid. No one's opinion is more valid than someone else's just because it may not be as popular. I am of the unpopular opinion that Horner is NOT a hack or lazy or whatever negative buzzword people just love to use. That's the kicker - people enjoy being negative, enjoy criticizing, enjoy 'bashing'. It's much easier and apparently "fun" to do that than to be nice or look at things from a more positive perspective.

I love the music of a lazy thieving hack. I've said here in the past I wonder what that makes those detractors think of the fans themselves. How could anyone in their right mind NOT see Horner for what he supposedly is, right? Must be lacking morals, or lacking taste, or just wearing blinders.

It's also quite telling that if Horner is apparently so lazy and steals from everyone, that his own musical voice and style is so strong and everyone can point out a Horner score easily. Another point is if this wasn't FILM music, chances are this wouldn't be an issue at all. Film music is the one area where developing your own ideas from one project to another, as well as borrowing / quoting ideas is completely, utterly condemned.

This is all of course one guy's little opinion.


Think of all the plagiarism done back in the days of Warner Brothers cartoons?! Actually I see it as a service, as a discovery into other music I might not have been aware of. And as was stated, despite it all, Horner has an unmistakable sound. So he offers plenty of originality.

Regarding the score, it's an epic, and I love the longer cues. I prefer longer suites over a lot of shorter cues. Long and exhausting yes, but pure magic from beginning to end.

 
 
 Posted:   Jan 12, 2018 - 8:34 AM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

Definitely in my Top 10 Horner. But -- as you would expect -- I'm perfectly satisfied with the existing soundtrack.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 5:54 AM   
 By:   Willgoldnewtonbarrygrusin   (Member)

Gave this a spin after a year. Still an absolute pleasure.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 6:20 AM   
 By:   Tall Guy   (Member)

Solium - if Horner’s musical borrowings are introducing you to the original pieces, then those of us that point them out are also doing you a favour. How would you know that an interlude from Clear & Present Danger is taken from the third movement of Shostakovich’s 5th Symphony unless it were mentioned here? So Horner was doing the world a huge service - using his scores to act as a bridge to some of the world’s most important music.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 7:31 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I think many people would be fine if Horner came out and listed his inspirations, similar to Carter Burwell, who seemingly never writes an original melody for the Coens, appropriating old religious or folk tunes, but is open about it.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 11:25 AM   
 By:   Scott McOldsmith   (Member)

As a person who doesn't listen to very much classical music - hardly at all really - his uses of that genre's work goes right the hell over my head. Thusly, I couldn't care less. Self-borrowing? Not a problem. I love his original writing and whenever he references and expands on his own themes, I smile. He was a man who could create lovely motifs and would - over time - develop them. The only time it ever pulled me from a film was the day I first noticed it, when he quoted "Genesis Coundown" in the climax of Cocoon. I actually smiled because I recognized it and wondered at the time if the filmmakers just tracked it. On the CD, it's still a favorite cue.

I didn't care. James Horner cemented my love of film scores and I was devastated when he tragically died.

Willow is an amazing score. It feels like the bastard child of Krull and Star Wars and is all the better for it. You can literally taste the genius in this music. I'd love an expanded release.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

@ Tall Guy and Scott - Agree on both counts!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 11:48 AM   
 By:   Avatarded   (Member)

An old article of ours on the quotes in the score:

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/willow-between-quotes/

Guess we aren't as deaf as I'm certain some fans think.

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 11:55 AM   
 By:   William R.   (Member)

An old article of ours on the quotes in the score:

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/willow-between-quotes/

Guess we aren't as deaf as I'm certain some fans think.


That's probably the most scholarly article I've ever read about Willow. Nicely done!

 
 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 12:49 PM   
 By:   kaseykockroach   (Member)

Land Before Time kicks this score's ass.

 
 Posted:   Feb 9, 2019 - 10:05 PM   
 By:   Adventures of Jarre Jarre   (Member)

What affects me about any work isn't my ability to Name That Tune in ADHD fashion, but how it makes me feel and imagine as I'm listening to it. Willow, moreso than other Horner works, takes me on a grand and bold journey each time, and the performance of such a feat takes a skill beyond mere thievery. A lesser composer could've chosen a medley of "greatest hits" (hah!) of country and polka melodies, and would've made an easy enemy out of me. frown

 
 Posted:   Aug 13, 2021 - 4:51 AM   
 By:   SpaceMind   (Member)

I just watched Willow again last night and I can't say enough how much I would LOVE an expanded edition. This score is in my top 10.

 
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