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Help!
I heard this instrumental version of America on youtube put out by partytime karaoke. The orchestration is very full and the sound quality is very good. Since the melody lines are all there I would never have pegged it as a karaoke track. There is no cd and you can't download it. I'm looking to purchase a great orchestral version of America. I did hear one maybe 12 years ago on, I believe, a new Bernstein tribute cd, but I have no other information and have never been able to track that down or any other comparable performance. I heard Williams/Boston Pops recording but was not impressed. Any recommendations?
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Posted: |
Aug 5, 2020 - 2:50 AM
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By: |
EricHG30
(Member)
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I admit, while I think West Side Story is brilliant (and at least some of that is due to Jerome Robbins' especially in the song sequences he was still on set co-directing before he was fired), I play the original cast album when I listen to the score, for the most part. It's a gorgeously produced album by head of Columbia classical, Godard Lieberson, who essentially invented what became known as the definite format for cast recordings and the ones he produced were almost always head and shoulders above those from other studios (his protege Thomas Z Shepherd, took that up--notably producing many of the best Sondheim cast albums when RCA hired him away from Columbia to help revitalize their cast album department back in the 1970s, back when major studios still cared about cast albums).
There's a great book about the music of West Side Story that goes into details of that original cast recording session with some of the letters Stephen Sondheim wrote to Bernstein, who was outof the country on a conducting tour. Sondheim says Bernstein won't be happy with his and Lieberson's decisions to play up some of the tempi for the dance music but the belief was that without the visuals, it had to be played as exciting as possible (and they didn't have to worry about the poor cast keeping up). In this case I think they were right.
What's amazing about it is it was recorded in 1957 (one of the first stereo cast albums) and still sounds pretty fantastic--certainly better than most 1950s movie score soundtracks I have.
A great alternative is the recent San Francisco Orchestra, conducted by the great Michael Tilson Thomas, from 2013 which is note complete to the original score (including the full dream ballet which was cut from the film--probably wisely though I miss it). It's simply one of the best sounding recordings I own http://castalbums.org/recordings/West-Side-Story-2013-Concert-Cast/28105/
But any rate, I do own the last major release of the soundtrack album, and pull it out occasionally mostly for that terrific orchestra. And to get to my point about a piano...
Bernstein hired Irwin Kostal and Sid Ramin to do the Broadway orchestrations and according to an excellent book on Broadway orchestrations, there certainly is no piano there--at least until keyboards became common, Broadway pits didn't typicallyhave pianos though there are exceptions like in the 20s and 30s shows of Jerome Kern and George Gershwin (most notably). The orchestrations were enlarged for the film (once again by Kostal and Ramin although conductor Johnny Green as well as Saul Chaplin get credit as well)--but I don't hear a piano...
And apologies for going on--when someone posts about a Broadway musical here I get a bit over
zealous.
And of course stay away from the 1980s recording Bernstein conducted with a heavily accented José Carreras (!!) and Kiri Te Kanawa. It's not just that it's miscast, but by that time Bernstein was conducting his own work with so much self importance that it just *drags* and, while the orchestra is strong, it's not even the complete score, so why bother.
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My God, what a boring discussion group this would be if we all followed parameters in a strictly literal way. I was only looking for orchestral versions of "America," but Onya is right, he does know something of my taste, and I appreciate his recommendations. By the way, I have and do like the Richards/Kenton version, but have not heard the Manny Albam version, but will check it out. I've heard other things by him. Making thoughtful suggestions or comments based on how we connect to the poster's comments is what makes these threads, in turn, interesting to read. If anybody has any recommendations for versions of "America" that do not strictly adhere to what I was originally seeking, by all means, bring them on.
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Posted: |
Aug 6, 2020 - 12:11 AM
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By: |
EricHG30
(Member)
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A great alternative is the recent San Francisco Orchestra, conducted by the great Michael Tilson Thomas, from 2013 which is note complete to the original score (including the full dream ballet which was cut from the film--probably wisely though I miss it). It's simply one of the best sounding recordings I own http://castalbums.org/recordings/West-Side-Story-2013-Concert-Cast/28105/
That's the only recording of the work I have. But I'm a fan of completeness....
[/quote]
As do I. With any Broadway shows I collect, I usually end up with the original cast album and then an alternative complete (if available) version. Partly because, as Sondheim says, often the songs are tailored to, with keys changed, etc, for the original performers.
Bernstein hired Irwin Kostal and Sid Ramin to do the Broadway orchestrations and according to an excellent book on Broadway orchestrations, there certainly is no piano there-
.
Not quite sure if you mean in most Broadway shows up til then or WSS, but WSS does indeed have a piano (doubling on celesta) player.
Yeah, thanks, I wasn't clear whatsoever. You are right. (As for earlier shows, Kern was famous for insisting Bennett, when orchestrating his shows, use two pianos, although I believe Show Boat was an exception--his 30s musical The Cat and the Fiddle actually had three pianos who had a showcase section in the Overture).
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Posted: |
Aug 13, 2020 - 2:41 AM
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By: |
EricHG30
(Member)
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Completely agreed.
While no one would claim that Cool is an underappreciated number--I sorta feel like it isn't as appreciated among the other dance pieces in the film--compared to America, or Dance at the Gym, anyway, but for me it's the highlight of the film. I think it's one of the sequences Robbins' directed basically without Wise's input, and of course it's basically the exact same original stage choreography (there's a great Ed Sullivan performance from the original production, albeit late in the run with a replacement Riff--here it is slightly edited https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_IvknEFZGs ). But the way he films the number, choreography aside, is phenomenal. It's also my favourite piece of music in the score.
Funny, on the Sondheim groups I've posted on, one of the big debates that always comes up is that Lehman's screenplay switches up the stage placements of Cool and Officer Krupke, and if it's an improvement or not. I belong to the camp that thinks it absolutely makes more sense in the film to have Cool later in the film, after the shit's hit the fan (and Riff can no longer sing it because... he's dead.) On stage there's a valid argument that in a very heavy Act II (despite opening with Pretty), Officer Krupke helps relieve some of the tension by being placed late in the show, and for whatever reason that often seems more important in stage productions than in films... But yeah, the argument about it gets heated  (It also gives one final big dance number in the movie, since they understandably cut the Somewhere ballet).
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Interesting! Of course, the piano is not an member of an orchestra. It's a solo instrument.
You claim to be a classical music lover and yet say this incredibly ignorant and stupid thing? Wow.
"Claim" to be a music-lover; "ignorant", "stupid"?
Yes, I have postgraduate qualifications in Musicology and I say again, the piano is not a REGULAR member of an orchestra. They are brought in for special effects, as in Prokofiev's orchestral suite from "Romeo and Juliet", but a pianist is not a rank and file member of an orchestra. For example, do you think they belong in the Percussion Section? Which section? Where are they normally placed? Oh that's right - out the front when a concerto is being played.
Pianos are used primarily for solo or concerto work. So, saying somebody "played the piano IN the orchestra" is technically incorrect. They could play a "violin in an orchestra" or "played a piano WITH the orchestra". Got it now? Prepositions DO make a difference!
"Tubular Bells"!!?? Sheesh.
I am 70 years old and have studied and worked at orchestration for the past 55 years. I am also a pianist, starting at a very young age.
The piano is both. it is, essentially a percussion instrument because the hammer strikes the string to make a sound. On the score page it is placed near the harp and percussion section. I assume you've seen score paper.
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We have had massive from-stage-to-screen threads since inception and musicals have garnered much discussion.