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Damn straight!
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Bond-music should be the way JOHN BARRY thought it should be (because he created the sound of Bond-music).
John Barry, or Monty Norman, take your pick.
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While I definatly agree that an element of what John Barry's "sound" for this franchise should be maintained. I believe it should be merely a starting point for another composer, not a destination.
Any film composers task is to score the film that is before him, not the 10 or 15 or 20 films that had gone before.
David Arnold did that very nicely with Casino Royale.
If you are looking for a taste of that 60's Bond magic, there are many Bond CD's for you to choose from, or The Incredibles score.
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O.K. I can agree here. The end-result, ofcourse, depends on the ability of the composer to come up with a really convincing "destination" - something no composer apart from J.B. has achieved until today. Martin, Hamlisch and Conti at least did an O.K. job.
Ok I guess, but I vastly prefer what Kamen and Arnold did over any of their scores.
Taking some Barry-elements is definitely NOT good enough! The C.R. score consists only of fragments of melodies and the rest of it are "second level sound effects" or as some reviewer on amazon.co.uk described it very correctly: "more of 'the orchestra just fell down the stairs' explosions of dis-jointed row".
I can't take serious someone who gets his music review from Amazon, sorry.
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I like the kamen score, I like the arnold scores, I like the Barry scores. But i like then for different reasons.
James Bond music doesn't have to be ONE thing.
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I'm sorry as much as I love John Barry's Bond music, he definatly followed a pattern here, as he did with much of his other scores.
John Barry was a superiour melodic composer, but his orchestrations and tempo's were often repetetive. Much of his Bond music is a variation on a limited number of ideas and styles.
John Barry's Bond music is often stunning, but for me there's plenty of room for other things.
I'm sorry if you still want to think it's 1987.
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Posted: |
Dec 30, 2006 - 10:21 PM
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By: |
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I'm sorry as much as I love John Barry's Bond music, he definatly followed a pattern here, as he did with much of his other scores.
Well, you can find *some* pattern in the work of every composer (Morricone, Mancini, Bacharach, Williams...ALL of them).
Not to speak of Mr. Pattern-Arnold...
John Barry was a superiour melodic composer, but his orchestrations and tempo's were often repetetive. Much of his Bond music is a variation on a limited number of ideas and styles.
That´s not true for the Bond-scores. It may be true to some degree for some of his most "recent" works (the nineties).
But...FRWL, Goldfinger, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, Moonraker, TLD...limited number of ideas and styles??? You must be joking. And don´t forget his many, many other films: Beat Girl, Petulia, Midnight Cowboy, The Knack, Ruby Cairo, Lion in Winter, Deadfall, Quiller Memorandum, Ipcress File (two "spy"-films with completely different "sound"), The Chase, King Kong...an almost endless list. Most other composers do not deliver that much ideas and styles in their whole life...
John Barry's Bond music is often stunning, but for me there's plenty of room for other things.
Of course...if I like them! There´s no room for things I do not like.
I'm sorry if you still want to think it's 1987.
Wait, I know the right answer: it´s (still) 2006 and soon it will be 2007! Honestly, I have no idea what the year has to do with one´s personal taste. Am I supposed to like Arnold only because the year is 2006? Will Barry´s music be rotten in 2007 because it says "best use before 2006" on the CD-label? I can´t see anything really NEW in today´s filmmusic. What should be that exciting new element in the scores of 2006 that make Barry´s music look old? There is nothing of that kind inherent in today´s filmmusic! I can even dream of a new Barry-score in 2007, can´t I? (I know this will not happen).
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That´s not true for the Bond-scores. It may be true to some degree for some of his most "recent" works (the nineties).
But...FRWL, Goldfinger, YOLT, OHMSS, DAF, Moonraker, TLD...limited number of ideas and styles??? You must be joking. Most other composers do not deliver that much ideas and styles in their whole life...
Of course the score you mention are in some cases decades apart.
OHMSS has brilliant parts but also a few that are repetative and rather dull, Apart from a handfull of tracks I've never gotten into DAF, TMWTGG, Octopussy and A View To A Kill, all professionally scored, but basically just variations on an olf formula.
John Barry himself acknowledges that he didn't take the franchise seriously anymore in the 70's. (insert comment from Timmer or another Barry hard liner stating that even Barry on auto-pilot is better then any other composers's best work)
Of course...if I like them! There´s no room for things I do not like.
Well if you don't like Casino Royale, then by all means never buy the CD, never listen to the score and the song.
There are plenty of Bond scores out there for you to enjoy, so that's hardly a problem.
Wait, I know the right answer: it´s (still) 2006 and soon it will be 2007! Honestly, I have no idea what the year has to do with one´s personal taste. Am I supposed to like Arnold only because the year is 2006? Will Barry´s music be rotten in 2007 because it says "best use before 2006" on the CD-label? I can´t see anything really NEW in today´s filmmusic. What should be that exciting new element in the scores of 2006 that make Barry´s music look old? There is nothing of that kind inherent in today´s filmmusic! I can even dream of a new Barry-score in 2007, can´t I? (I know this will not happen).
There wasn't anything really new in film music when John Barry did From Russia With Love and Goldfinger. He simply took a popular form of music (jazz) and mixed it with a symphonic "film music" style.
Basically when David Arnold angered every Bond music fan in the world by mixing techo with orchestra for TWINE he did the same thing Barry did in the 60's.
John Barry is clearly no longer interested in scorinf James Bond films. They could have hired someone who could imitate John Barry (Giachino for instance), but instead since 1989 they have been looking for artists to bring something else to the table. Even though it has not always been a succes, I can only applaud the producers for that.
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Posted: |
Dec 30, 2006 - 11:29 PM
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By: |
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Of course the score you mention are in some cases decades apart.
OHMSS has brilliant parts but also a few that are repetative and rather dull, Apart from a handfull of tracks I've never gotten into DAF, TMWTGG, Octopussy and A View To A Kill, all professionally scored, but basically just variations on an olf formula.
OHMSS - repetitive and rather dull parts? Are we even speaking of the same score? Here we can only agree to disagree: you eat your grilled insects and I take the steak!
John Barry himself acknowledges that he didn't take the franchise seriously anymore in the 70's. (insert comment from Timmer or another Barry hard liner stating that even Barry on auto-pilot is better then any other composers's best work)
And Timmer is right!
Well if you don't like Casino Royale, then by all means never buy the CD, never listen to the score and the song.
I do my best in this regard anyway. I saw the film once, I listened to the CD once and that´s it!
There wasn't anything really new in film music when John Barry did From Russia With Love and Goldfinger. He simply took a popular form of music (jazz) and mixed it with a symphonic "film music" style.
Ha ha...excellent joke! Yes, really, this was all VERY simple....for a genius like Barry! If you see things this way then there has NEVER been anything new in music since the Stone Age...
Basically when David Arnold angered every Bond music fan in the world by mixing techo with orchestra for TWINE he did the same thing Barry did in the 60's.
Arnold did not invent something new - his Bond-scores sound EXACTELY like every other action-score sounds nowadays (maybe a little more boring).
but instead since 1989 they have been looking for artists to bring something else to the table. Even though it has not always been a succes, I can only applaud the producers for that.
Well, I wait with my applause until they have found something SUCCESSFUL (and by "successful" I mean music that really "helps" the film to become a better Bond-film (IMO, of course), not selling many records)! "Something else" is NOT good enough!
Good Night, Goodnight and Over and Out! 
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That said I do like the boat music from TWINE, particularly because it's a great instant of Arnold standing back and letting the pro specialists do their trade.
Here we go again, the old ahem cliche.
Everything Arnold has ever done on his own is crap.
Everything Arnold ever done in collaboration with someone else is succesfull only because of that other person.
These days, that's just such a tired old cliche.
But I'm pretty much done discussing Arnold on this board. It's almost as bad as trying to start a thread about James Horner. You just know it's going to be taken over by the same few posters spitting out the same old comments again about why said composer is a fucking hack and why everyone else is a fucking moron for liking one note he's ever written.
Hell even the John Williams Messageboard is more tolerant towards Arnold then this place.
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