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 Posted:   Sep 5, 2008 - 4:56 PM   
 By:   manderley   (Member)

.....The box of UA LP releases was called THE MGM SOUNDTRACK TREASURY. So I suppose a box of LP's from the MGM label would be called THE WARNER SOUNTRACK TREASURY.....


No, but it might be called THE TURNER ENTERTAINMENT TREASURY. smile

The "old" MGM pictures are held as a library under the Turner Entertainment name within the Warners corporate structure, just as many other film corporations hold their acquired libraries separately (....perhaps to re-sell or spin off as a separate corporation again). That's how the UA Library ended up at MGM Entertainment again.

As for Lukas mixing Warner and MGM (or Allied Artists-Monogram/Lorimar or Castle Hill, etc) or United Artists/MGM for a set---after 162+ releases from FSM over the years I can't think of a single disc which had "mixed" licensing sources......can you?

Colpix went with Colpix, Warner Records went with Warner Records, MGM Records went with MGM Records, Warner sessions went with Warner sessions, MGM sessions went with MGM sessions, and UA sessions went with UA sessions.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2008 - 6:27 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

.....The box of UA LP releases was called THE MGM SOUNDTRACK TREASURY. So I suppose a box of LP's from the MGM label would be called THE WARNER SOUNTRACK TREASURY.....


No, but it might be called THE TURNER ENTERTAINMENT TREASURY. smile

The "old" MGM pictures are held as a library under the Turner Entertainment name within the Warners corporate structure, just as many other film corporations hold their acquired libraries separately (....perhaps to re-sell or spin off as a separate corporation again). That's how the UA Library ended up at MGM Entertainment again.

As for Lukas mixing Warner and MGM (or Allied Artists-Monogram/Lorimar or Castle Hill, etc) or United Artists/MGM for a set---after 162+ releases from FSM over the years I can't think of a single disc which had "mixed" licensing sources......can you?

Colpix went with Colpix, Warner Records went with Warner Records, MGM Records went with MGM Records, Warner sessions went with Warner sessions, MGM sessions went with MGM sessions, and UA sessions went with UA sessions.


Nope, you're right (I checked). The Turner Entertainment Box sounds good. Just keep them boxes a'coming!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2008 - 2:42 PM   
 By:   nathan brittles   (Member)

Good day gentlemen and ladies.

The encylopedia of Western movies lists the following titles as MGM.

Hearts of the West 1975
Westworld 1973
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid 1973
Catlow 1971
The Last Challenge 1967
The Rounders 1965
Advance to the Rear 1964
Mail Order Bride 1963
A Thunder of Drums 1961
The Law and Jake Wild 1958
Gun Glory 1957
Fastest Gun Alive 1956
Many Rivers to Cross 1955
Westward the Women 1953
Skyful of Moon 1952
Lone Star 1952
Red Badge of Courage 1951
Callaway went Thataway 1951
Accross the Wide Missouri 1951
Stars in My Crown 1950
The Outriders 1950
Ambush 1950
Three Godfathers 1948
Apache Trail 1943
Honky Talk 1941
Billy the Kid 1941
Northwest Passage 1940.

Many of the films listed were MGM star vehicles for the likes of Spencer Tracy, Robert Taylor and Clark Gable.

From the above my own dream five would be

A Thunder of Drums.
An interesting score by Harry Sukman which duplicates, in a minor part only, a descending hill score for 'Command' a thirty minute Saturday Evening Post episode , scored by Les Baxter.

Many Rivers to Cross.
Mentioned in a previous thred.

Red Badge of Courage.
Again this could be interesting as Kaper may have had access to the earlier, trimmed scenes, from this spectacular.
Nearly worth the price of a western set for the end titles alone..

Three Godfathers
Finally a Richard Hageman score which, in many ways, exemplifies his work for earlier and later westerns with John Ford.

Northwest Passage.
This is a magnificent score. Some elements must exist as, though wrongly titled, the end theme has appeared in good sound on a previous Turner Album.

Trusting that this helps.
Enjoy your days
Nathan

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 6, 2008 - 9:25 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

Good day gentlemen and ladies.

The encylopedia of Western movies lists the following titles as MGM.

Hearts of the West 1975
Westworld 1973
Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid 1973
Catlow 1971
The Last Challenge 1967
The Rounders 1965
Advance to the Rear 1964
Mail Order Bride 1963
A Thunder of Drums 1961
The Law and Jake Wade 1958
Gun Glory 1957
Fastest Gun Alive 1956
Many Rivers to Cross 1955
Westward the Women 1953
Skyful of Moon 1952
Lone Star 1952
Red Badge of Courage 1951
Callaway went Thataway 1951
Accross the Wide Missouri 1951
Stars in My Crown 1950
The Outriders 1950
Ambush 1950
Three Godfathers 1948
Apache Trail 1943
Honky Talk 1941
Billy the Kid 1941
Northwest Passage 1940.

Nathan

--------------------------------------------------------------------------
We've already seen the release of "Westworld," "The Fastest Gun Alive," and "Mail Order Bride" by FSM. 35 minutes of Bob Dylan's music for "Pat Garrett and Billy the Kid" have been relesaed by Columbia. And we've had maybe 15 minutes of music from "Catlow" released. I don't know how much music remains unreleased for the latter two.

As for "The Law and Jake Wade," the AFI reports that:
"According to a Hollywood Reporter April 1958 news item, The Law and Jake Wade marked the first time a major film studio used a "canned soundtrack" for background music. The item reveals that composer Bronislau Kaper had begun a score for the film, but due to a musicians' strike, M-G-M purchased a full-length recording from the library of Capitol Records and used it for the film's music track."

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 1:05 AM   
 By:   Dorian   (Member)

And we've had maybe 15 minutes of music from "Catlow" released. I don't know how much music remains unreleased for the latter two.


Quite a lot from Catlow actually. The whole score is excellent and much much longer in the film -- and wasn't the LP/CD version even a whole new re-recording ?

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 1:43 AM   
 By:   mgh   (Member)

A MGM western that doesn't appear to be on the above list is MAN WITH THE GUN (1955) by Alex North. Good solid western score. Excellent Main Title, and the cue where the saloon burns down is gorgeous. One of North's best.
Pretty good movie too.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 1:50 AM   
 By:   Dorian   (Member)

As for Lukas mixing Warner and MGM (or Allied Artists-Monogram/Lorimar or Castle Hill, etc) or United Artists/MGM for a set---after 162+ releases from FSM over the years I can't think of a single disc which had "mixed" licensing sources......can you?

Actually there is maybe one: the Gerald Fried set (FSM Vol. 1 No. 4) credits 3 scores to Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and one (The Cabinet of Caligari) to Twentieth Century Fox.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 5:17 AM   
 By:   Stephen Lister   (Member)

And we've had maybe 15 minutes of music from "Catlow" released. I don't know how much music remains unreleased for the latter two.


Quite a lot from Catlow actually. The whole score is excellent and much much longer in the film -- and wasn't the LP/CD version even a whole new re-recording ?


Yes it was. The album tracks are not as good as the film tracks, which are often played at a different tempo and have the instruments mixed more effectively.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 5:27 AM   
 By:   chriss   (Member)

Northwest Passage.
This is a magnificent score. Some elements must exist as, though wrongly titled, the end theme has appeared in good sound on a previous Turner Album.


That's interesting! Which CD and which track do you mean? Or was that piece simply re-used?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 5:27 AM   
 By:   BJN   (Member)

As for Lukas mixing Warner and MGM (or Allied Artists-Monogram/Lorimar or Castle Hill, etc) or United Artists/MGM for a set---after 162+ releases from FSM over the years I can't think of a single disc which had "mixed" licensing sources......can you?

Actually there is maybe one: the Gerald Fried set (FSM Vol. 1 No. 4) credits 3 scores to Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and one (The Cabinet of Caligari) to Twentieth Century Fox.


Yet the music elements for all four films came from one single source (the composer's private archive). I don't think it's a "real" exception.

There were also cases where the score rights and the soundtrack album rights for the same film ended up at different owners, and two or more coyright holders are credited in the booklet.

 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 7:18 AM   
 By:   mgh   (Member)

A few more suggestions:

SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL SHERIFF - JEFF ALEXANDER
DAY OF THE EVIL GUN - JEFF ALEXANDER
THE ROUNDERS - JEFF ALEXANDER
WELCOME TO HARD TIMES - HARRY SUKMAN
HEAVEN WITH A GUN - JOHNNY MANDEL
ACROSS THE WIDE MISSOURI - DAVID RAKSIN
SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL GUNFIGHTER - JACK ELLIOTT & ALLYN FERGUSON
THE HUNTING PARTY - RIZ ORTOLANI
VALDEZ IS COMING - CHARLES GROSS
THE SPIKES GANG - FRED KARLIN
CATLOW (original tracks) - ROY BUDD


Boy, it is good to see somebody else list VALDEZ IS COMING besides me. That means that at least two of us love this score. We're building slowly but surely.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 8:39 AM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I too love Valdez, but wouldn't be surprised if the tapes are long gone. It is UA, & didn't Lukas say they threw them all away in the70's.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 10:22 AM   
 By:   sammyp   (Member)

As for Lukas mixing Warner and MGM (or Allied Artists-Monogram/Lorimar or Castle Hill, etc) or United Artists/MGM for a set---after 162+ releases from FSM over the years I can't think of a single disc which had "mixed" licensing sources......can you?

Actually there is maybe one: the Gerald Fried set (FSM Vol. 1 No. 4) credits 3 scores to Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer and one (The Cabinet of Caligari) to Twentieth Century Fox.


Yet the music elements for all four films came from one single source (the composer's private archive). I don't think it's a "real" exception.

There were also cases where the score rights and the soundtrack album rights for the same film ended up at different owners, and two or more coyright holders are credited in the booklet.


Also, the Fried set was VERY early FSM. FSM was not even involved with Turner at the time. Things may have been different then.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 7, 2008 - 3:33 PM   
 By:   nathan brittles   (Member)

With respects.

Man with the gun..Aka..Deadly Peacemaker is a United Artists release.

Northwest Passage, actually the end title, is on:
COMPOSED BY : CLASSIC FILM THEMES FROM HOLLYWOOD' MASTERS.
RHINO MOVIE MUSIC R2 72847
TRACK 10.

With regards
Nathan

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 8, 2008 - 10:29 AM   
 By:   TonyJ   (Member)



I'm glad that someone else on this board thinks that Stothart's Northwest Passage has a magnificent score. I was afraid to use an adjective that strong on my previous post lest I be chastised for exaggeration. Of all the scores mentioned in this thread Northwest Passage is the finest. If FSM is able to put out a 3rd Western Box, I think this title deserves to have its name on it. Can Lukas tell us if the enough of the musical elements for this score exist?

 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2008 - 1:07 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


Hi Pardners,

I'm actually looking into this stuff. Anyone want to guess who conducted Many Rivers to Cross?

I have a question. I remember reading that there were some synch issues on Rhino's How the West Was Won. Can anybody provide specifics as to which tracks have problems, and what?

Thanks

Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2008 - 2:16 PM   
 By:   nathan brittles   (Member)

Hi Pardners,

I'm actually looking into this stuff. Anyone want to guess who conducted Many Rivers to Cross?

Lukas,
Cyril J Mockridge was the composer of the score with , I believe, Arthur Morton, as orchestrator.
Arthur seemed to spend the late fourties and fifties orchestrting everyones westerns ?.
Unfortunately I cannot give you positive proof.
Regards
Nathan

 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2008 - 4:15 PM   
 By:   Lukas Kendall   (Member)


I am teasing you -- I found out from the logs. A big name conducted it, I guess as a favor. Not Newman, but...

Lukas

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2008 - 4:23 PM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

I am teasing you -- I found out from the logs. A big name conducted it, I guess as a favor. Not Newman, but...

Lukas


Mmm MGM, my money would be on Previn or Rozsa.

 
 
 Posted:   Oct 5, 2008 - 4:39 PM   
 By:   Dorian   (Member)

Didn't Rozsa also conduct some MGM Kaper score released by FSM -- I can't recall which one it is right now but it makes him a possibilily.

 
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