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 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 8:17 AM   
 By:   TOR The Wrestler From The Past   (Member)

is YOR go to sue someone?

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 8:18 AM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

Wasn't there a lawsuit surrounding the music for The Color Purple?

It was all settled before it got anywhere near a lawsuit.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 8:43 AM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

Don't the studios normally hold copyright on their "work for hire" film compositions? If so, why do we speak of composers suing -- especially since the studios are the ones with the money to pursue such activities?


I assume it's because, in European civil law jurisdictions, there is this thing called "moral right" associated with copyright.

Basically the creator/composer of a work has the right to bar others from mutilating and lessening the artistic value of his work.

And such moral right is non-alienable, meaning it cannot be assigned or transfered to the employer/studio, even in a "works-made-for-hire" context.

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 8:48 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Jean Claude Petit and Danny Elfman - Batman and Cyrano De Bergerac similarities.
There is mentioned court case in various articles (like this: http://www.mfiles.co.uk/composers/Jean-Claude-Petit.htm), but I can´t find anything official.


I love the Cyrano De Bergerac score, but yeah the Batman rift was quite obvious!

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 9:10 AM   
 By:   Maleficio   (Member)

Jean Claude Petit and Danny Elfman - Batman and Cyrano De Bergerac similarities.
There is mentioned court case in various articles (like this: http://www.mfiles.co.uk/composers/Jean-Claude-Petit.htm), but I can´t find anything official.


I love the Cyrano De Bergerac score, but yeah the Batman rift was quite obvious!





According to Lukas Kendall, it was done on purpose.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.artists.danny-elfman/QAU4_4E_6Yk

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 9:30 AM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

Don't the studios normally hold copyright on their "work for hire" film compositions? If so, why do we speak of composers suing -- especially since the studios are the ones with the money to pursue such activities?

Studios (generally) have the right to use the music as they see fit, but the composer must be paid royalties for this use. These royalties can be substantial. If somebody plagiarizes their work, the studio may be just fine with it (if it's the same studio), but the composer wants his money.

Of course, there is a very blurry line between plagiarism and influence, and where exactly that line is drawn depends on a judgement of the court. If a composer doesn't feel like he has a slam dunk case, it may not be worth it.

Also, working composers are often reluctant to sue a studio for fear of exactly what's happened to Elliot Goldenthal. He won his case, but will never work for Warner Bros. again. There aren't many major studios. It's a risk.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 9:46 AM   
 By:   Morricone   (Member)

So far those are some of the famous ones. Here is one that didn't get to court (few do) Jon Burlingame wrote about in an article on Georges Delerue:

[Delerue's agent Richard Kraft added that "he was the happiest of composers... joyful about what he was doing." He regaled the crowd with the story of his discovery of Delerue's Our Mother's House music in The Color Purple (it had apparently been in the temp score for the Steven Spielberg film), noting that, the night before the 1985 Academy Awards (when Quincy Jones' score for Color Purple was up against Delerue's Agnes of God for original-score honors), Delerue had received "a huge settlement" — and, a week later, Spielberg offered Delerue an episode of Amazing Stories to score.



 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 9:55 AM   
 By:   robertmro   (Member)

Probably the most famous case was over Dimitri Tiomkin's theme for "The High And The Mighty".

" A December 1958 Hollywood Reporter news item reported that Leon Navara sued Tiomkin, Washington, Warner Bros., Witmark Music and Wayne-Fellows Productions for one million dollars each, claiming that The High and the Mighty theme song was a plagiarism of one of his tunes. According to a January 1959 Newsweek article, much of Navara's case rested on the placement and use of a B flat, which occurred in both the film's theme and Navara's 1949 work, "Enchanted Cello." Witnesses for the defense were composers Deems Taylor and Sigmund Spaeth. After fifteen days of arguments and eight of jury deliberation, the New York Supreme Court ruled in favor of Tiomkin. The haunting tune became an often played, and often parodied, Hollywood film theme that developed into its own entity, symbolizing the type of strong, but troubled character played by Wayne."

Source: TCM.com

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 9:58 AM   
 By:   Other Tallguy   (Member)

I recall the Gustav Holst estate accused Hans Zimmer or plagiarizing "Mars" in the Gladiator battle music. I don't know if anything ever came of this.

Very interesting. That being the case, why would this not have happened with STAR WARS: EPISODE IV? Of course we all know the film was temp tracked with Mars, but the score is so close as to be more than a mere homage.


I hear Holst in one place in Star Wars: When the Falcon lands on the Death Star.

Tons of Stravinski. Lots of Herrmann. Quite a bit of Korngold. Where else is there Holst?

I love the Cyrano De Bergerac score, but yeah the Batman rift was quite obvious!

Yeah, Journey to the Center of the Earth is awesome. smile

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:09 AM   
 By:   judy the hutt   (Member)

re: Gustav Holst. If you listen to his Planets and then DeBussy's Trois Nocturnes you can hear similarities.

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:12 AM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Yeah, Journey to the Center of the Earth is awesome. smile

ZING! big grin

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:13 AM   
 By:   Advise & Consent   (Member)

Yeah, Journey to the Center of the Earth is awesome. smile

ZING! big grin

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:15 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

Jean Claude Petit and Danny Elfman - Batman and Cyrano De Bergerac similarities.
There is mentioned court case in various articles (like this: http://www.mfiles.co.uk/composers/Jean-Claude-Petit.htm), but I can´t find anything official.


I love the Cyrano De Bergerac score, but yeah the Batman rift was quite obvious!


According to Lukas Kendall, it was done on purpose.

According to Jean-Claude Petit, composer of Cyrano, he originally did
that as a joke for the director, who then insisted they kept it in.
So Petit gritted his teeth and complied.

LK

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.music.artists.danny-elfman/QAU4_4E_6Yk


Fascinating!

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:27 AM   
 By:   Ludwig van   (Member)

Very interesting. That being the case, why would this not have happened with STAR WARS: EPISODE IV? Of course we all know the film was temp tracked with Mars, but the score is so close as to be more than a mere homage.

I hear Holst in one place in Star Wars: When the Falcon lands on the Death Star.

Tons of Stravinski. Lots of Herrmann. Quite a bit of Korngold. Where else is there Holst?


It's this bit of Mars (at 6:56):



that makes its way into STAR WARS in "Rebel Blockade Runner" at 1:40:



It's clear that the former was used as a temp track, especially since we know for sure that Holst was used for that purpose in the film's creation.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:34 AM   
 By:   filmusicnow   (Member)

The estate of Gustav Holst sued Hans Zimmer for using a few bars from "The Planet" in his and Lisa Gerrard's score for "Gladiator".

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 10:47 AM   
 By:   Anabel Boyer   (Member)

Has a film composer ever sued for plagiarism?

Philippe Sarde has tried to sue himself many times.

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 11:24 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

I just want to say that it's awfully sad that anyone on a message board devoted to this kind of music would need to go to YouTube to remember what "Mars, The Bringer Of War" and the "Main Title" of Star Wars sound like.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 11:30 AM   
 By:   Michael24   (Member)

I just want to say that it's awfully sad that anyone on a message board devoted to this kind of music would need to go to YouTube to remember what "Mars, The Bringer Of War" and the "Main Title" of Star Wars sound like.

Not all of us are familiar with or have a working knowledge of classical music.

 
 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 11:32 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Actually it's useful to have the supposed loci identified so precisely. It makes it easier to see how crazy these accusations are.

 
 Posted:   Jul 26, 2013 - 11:34 AM   
 By:   Shaun Rutherford   (Member)

They're only two of the most famous pieces of music in the past 100 years.

GET KNOWLEDGE

 
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