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 Posted:   Sep 17, 2013 - 12:53 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)


Ray, that's Objective Burma! smile



Doh! I knew that!

And thanks to your reposting my comment I can't edit away my dumb mistake. frown




There ........ fixed! smile

Ray, now turn that frown into a smile! smile

 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 1:06 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

I may as well deposit my rankings of the soundtracks by Franz Waxman which I own into this thread, since the OP invites feedback on Waxman music.

Here goes ...

Waxing poetic

1. THE STORY OF RUTH
2. THE SILVER CHALICE
3. THE NUN'S STORY
4. BOTANY BAY
5. MY COUSIN RACHEL
6. THE VIRGIN QUEEN
7. THE SPIRIT OF ST. LOUIS
8. NIGHT AND THE CITY
9. SUNSET BOULEVARD

3 Wax candles

10. HEMINGWAY'S ADVENTURES OF A YOUNG MAN
11. TARAS BULBA
12. CRIME IN THE STREETS
13. LURE OF THE WILDERNESS
14. PEYTON PLACE
15. ELEPHANT WALK
16. ANNE OF THE INDIES

2-tti Wax fruity

17. A PLACE IN THE SUN
18. CAREER
19. MY GEISHA
20. DEMETRIUS AND THE GLADIATORS
21. MAN ON A TIGHTROPE
22. UNTAMED

ear Wax ... or ... get that out of my ears smile

23. CIMARRON
24. "The Sixteen-Millimeter Shrine" episode of THE TWILIGHT ZONE
25. BELOVED INFIDEL
26. PRINCE VALIANT
27. RETURN TO PEYTON PLACE
28. STALAG 17


In summary, the Waxman soundtracks I love the most are ones 1) for which Waxman did some research (THE SILVER CHALICE & THE NUN'S STORY), & 2) which have female protagonists (THE STORY OF RUTH, THE NUN'S STORY, MY COUSIN RACHEL, THE VIRGIN QUEEN, SUNSET BLVD., even the bi-plane herself the St. Louis, etc.)

Perhaps this may be one factors why a few FSM members (such as Graham Watt) can't get a handle on Waxman's music or are otherwise left unsatisfied Waxman soundtracks: many of them exhibit feminine qualities instead of the customary masculine & muscular story-telling music which we soundtrack collectors have come to expect & enjoy from our listening?

Thoughts?

 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 2:50 PM   
 By:   Yavar Moradi   (Member)



ear Wax ... or ... get that out of my ears smile

26. PRINCE VALIANT

Thoughts?


Say whaaaa?

Prince Valiant is an awesome score...maybe not the greatest depth when it comes to Waxman, but considering the film it's a masterpiece.

Yavar

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 16, 2013 - 3:10 PM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

“Perhaps this may be one factors why a few FSM members (such as Graham Watt) can't get a handle on Waxman's music or are otherwise left unsatisfied Waxman soundtracks: many of them exhibit feminine qualities instead of the customary masculine & muscular story-telling music which we soundtrack collectors have come to expect & enjoy from our listening?”

That is an interesting thought or take on Waxman’s music. Even though I’m female, I do like “muscular” sounding music. I’m a huge fan of Goldsmith’s action music. Actually, I’m not exactly sure how to
define “feminine and masculine music.” I’m not sure what those sounds embody. I think Cimarron is a great score with lots of what I consider masculine music. Beloved Infidel is stunningly gorgeous, and I assume some may find it feminine music. Maybe it is about the movies he scores. Beloved Infidel is a love story so the movie has no “muscular story-telling” music; it fits the movie meaning it is a romantic score married to a love story. To me Taras Bulba has very masculine music except perhaps when he underscores the love story. I think his music fits his movies whether action-oriented or dramatic. He is going to be liked by many or not liked. Personal taste and to each his/her own.

I don’t always expect muscular story-telling” in order to enjoy my listening. I like variety in my listening. I think many soundtrack collectors don’t zero in on one style. At the movies, I do expect to hear music that dovetails with the story and images.

In my opinion, his greatest score was MISTER ROBERTS. (masculine and lyrical ((bisexual?)) and dramatic and comical.)

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 5:26 AM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

"Feminine qualities..." Hmm, I'll have to think about that, TR. Whatever, I'm slowly working through my Waxman collection once more, and find myself enjoying them more for what they are, rather than for what I wished they were. I suppose that's a kind of pretentious way of saying that I'm still not totally enamoured (apart from the exceptions I mentioned in earlier posts), but I'm getting a hold on them.

If it's the "feminine qualities" which are really putting some of us off, could anyone mention other composers with that slant to their music? This may be misplaced or just wrong, but I've never been a huge fan of Laurence Rosenthal's scores. Again, as with Waxman, there are a dozen which I love, but there's something a bit... girly... about some of his themes. Just totally off the top of my head, his themes for TV's LOGAN'S RUN and FANTASY ISLAND are lush, but to me almost embarrassingly so. Same goes for his romantic moments in ISLAND OF DR MOREAU and BRASS TARGET - which have otherwise fine dramatic sequences. But why should that be a bad thing? I mean, I'm not exactly Mr Macho myself.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 9:42 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

ToneRow's comments can be stimulating, even when I suspect they contain an element of leg pulling. I'm still straining to discover the commonalities and antitheses here. I cannot honestly see what separates some of the favorites from some of the rejects.

The list seems largely limited to Waxman's post-1950 efforts. The most notable absentee is BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN, a landmark in Waxman's career and indeed in Hollywood film music in general. It is also a score that has been vividly represented on records since the spectacular Gerhardt re-creation of the 1970s.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 9:46 AM   
 By:   Rozsaphile   (Member)

Rereading more closely, I see ("soundtracks [i.e., soundtrack albums] that I own") that the list concerns records rather than film scores. Am I being pedantic? Sure. I'm a former teacher. But the distinction is an important one, and we all need reminding from time to time.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 11:01 AM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

"Crime in the Streets" and "Sunset Boulevard" are the only ones I've heard that have really grabbed me, but that is because I lean more toward things in these stylistic bags. The former has been reissued one of the excellent "Jazz on Film" box sets.

"Sayonara" is nice, although not up to the level of some of my favorite exotica. It is readily available at a thrift store near you.

Beyond those, I will have to revisit the RCA compilation CD.

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 12:38 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Prince Valiant is an awesome score...maybe not the greatest depth when it comes to Waxman, but considering the film it's a masterpiece.

Yavar


Hi, Yavar.

I'm glad you like PRINCE VALIANT.

Speaking for myself, I have a very low tolerance for it.

I've owned PRINCE VALIANT since FSM issued it, but, each time I listen to it, I accrue no appreciation for it other than the 20th Century Fox sound which it exhibits.

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 1:06 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)


That is an interesting thought or take on Waxman’s music. Even though I’m female, I do like “muscular” sounding music. I’m a huge fan of Goldsmith’s action music. Actually, I’m not exactly sure how to
define “feminine and masculine music.” I’m not sure what those sounds embody. I think Cimarron is a great score with lots of what I consider masculine music. Beloved Infidel is stunningly gorgeous, and I assume some may find it feminine music. Maybe it is about the movies he scores. Beloved Infidel is a love story so the movie has no “muscular story-telling” music; it fits the movie meaning it is a romantic score married to a love story. To me Taras Bulba has very masculine music except perhaps when he underscores the love story. I think his music fits his movies whether action-oriented or dramatic. He is going to be liked by many or not liked. Personal taste and to each his/her own.

I don’t always expect muscular story-telling” in order to enjoy my listening. I like variety in my listening. I think many soundtrack collectors don’t zero in on one style. At the movies, I do expect to hear music that dovetails with the story and images.

In my opinion, his greatest score was MISTER ROBERTS. (masculine and lyrical ((bisexual?)) and dramatic and comical.)


Hi, joan.

Yes, you're right about several points.

I'm sure most of us don't hone in on one particular style. We all have degrees of variety.
And, yes, the onscreen content determines the resultant score. Waxman was called upon to write music for quite a number of romantic stories.

When I took stock of my Waxman titles and spent the month of October listening to Waxman soundtracks, I created my ranking list during the process of which ones I liked and liked better than others.

One of the things (shall I say patterns?) I noticed in a lot of Waxman music is silent pauses within the tracks (not the ones between the cues).
Another aspect is that Waxman writes pianissimo passages frequently.
Perhaps this is what I mean feminine traits.
For example, it would not be uncommon to encounter a suspended chord on doubles-basses and/or cellos whilst a woodwind phrase (on piccolo flute or bassoon) plays a motif on top almost as if an ostinato. All during both musical lines, the musicians play such passages very quietly.

FSM's liner notes frequently mention Waxman's typical "graceful" style, even when he writes action music for items such as THE SILVER CHALICE.

More cyber words for brain food, anyway ... smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 1:14 PM   
 By:   Graham S. Watt   (Member)

Rereading more closely, I see ("soundtracks [i.e., soundtrack albums] that I own") that the list concerns records rather than film scores. Am I being pedantic? Sure. I'm a former teacher. But the distinction is an important one, and we all need reminding from time to time.

Speaking for myself here, I separate soundtrack listening as an album from how it works in the film. Of course, I do find it helpful to know what the music is supposed to be doing - but that's more in the historical document realm. So yes, I want to know the context, but I don't have to see the film to appreciate the music more (or less) as a listening experience.

As for PRINCE VALIANT, I've just heard it again today. It's quite an enjoyable romp of a score, but it's a little "old-fashioned" and cartoonish for my tastes. It may work well in the film (which I don't intend to ever see, but which I imagine is an old-fashioned cartoonish romp), but it doesn't speak to me in the way that - say - Miklos Rozsa's scores for old-fashioned cartoonish romps do.

So, I'm still getting newly acquainted with the music of Franz Waxman. I've listed the ones I really like (see the earlier posts), but I don't think he'll ever really click with me at this late stage.

Oh, by the way, not meaning to stir the pot - but I think that THE BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN is one of the most annoyingly overrated scores ever for one of the most annoyingly overrated classic Universal movies. But as enjoyable cartoon romps go....

 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 1:16 PM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

ToneRow's comments can be stimulating, even when I suspect they contain an element of leg pulling. I'm still straining to discover the commonalities and antitheses here. I cannot honestly see what separates some of the favorites from some of the rejects.



Well ... it's a list of ones I like and ones I don't like that much. smile

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 1:44 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

“Perhaps this may be one factors why a few FSM members (such as Graham Watt) can't get a handle on Waxman's music or are otherwise left unsatisfied Waxman soundtracks: many of them exhibit feminine qualities instead of the customary masculine & muscular story-telling music which we soundtrack collectors have come to expect & enjoy from our listening?”

That is an interesting thought or take on Waxman’s music. Even though I’m female, I do like “muscular” sounding music. I’m a huge fan of Goldsmith’s action music. Actually, I’m not exactly sure how to
define “feminine and masculine music.” I’m not sure what those sounds embody. I think Cimarron is a great score with lots of what I consider masculine music. Beloved Infidel is stunningly gorgeous, and I assume some may find it feminine music. Maybe it is about the movies he scores. Beloved Infidel is a love story so the movie has no “muscular story-telling” music; it fits the movie meaning it is a romantic score married to a love story. To me Taras Bulba has very masculine music except perhaps when he underscores the love story. I think his music fits his movies whether action-oriented or dramatic. He is going to be liked by many or not liked. Personal taste and to each his/her own.

I don’t always expect muscular story-telling” in order to enjoy my listening. I like variety in my listening. I think many soundtrack collectors don’t zero in on one style. At the movies, I do expect to hear music that dovetails with the story and images.

In my opinion, his greatest score was MISTER ROBERTS. (masculine and lyrical ((bisexual?)) and dramatic and comical.)




Joan, speaking of male and female, you user profile says you are a male! Yikes! smile

I always enjoy your comments.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 3:56 PM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

PFK, oh my goodness, my profile used to say female. Ghosts in my machine? Had to reboot the computer and spent a ton of time not being able to post here. Got a new password. Somehow, my gender changed.....without any surgery. wink Thanks for you comments and for letting me know that this woman was turned into a man. Hope I got it fixed now.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 17, 2013 - 8:44 PM   
 By:   PFK   (Member)

PFK, oh my goodness, my profile used to say female. Ghosts in my machine? Had to reboot the computer and spent a ton of time not being able to post here. Got a new password. Somehow, my gender changed.....without any surgery. wink Thanks for you comments and for letting me know that this woman was turned into a man. Hope I got it fixed now.



Joan, glad I rescued you in time!

Hmmm, this looks like a 1940s mystery movie! smile

 
 Posted:   Nov 23, 2013 - 11:26 AM   
 By:   ToneRow   (Member)

Rereading more closely, I see ("soundtracks [i.e., soundtrack albums] that I own") that the list concerns records rather than film scores. Am I being pedantic? Sure. I'm a former teacher. But the distinction is an important one, and we all need reminding from time to time.

Yes.

I rank what I have within my collection.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 24, 2013 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   vinylscrubber   (Member)

Skip down one--my bad.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 24, 2013 - 7:38 AM   
 By:   vinylscrubber   (Member)

Yes, Waxman's score are even better appreciated in their film context. Waxman's dramatic sense was extraordinary and I grieve over his premature loss at the age of 60. What he might have done with another 10-15 years or more. He just kept getting better and better.

And let me ask once again of our soundtrack producer posters--does anybody know if anything exists on his last major score for the 1966 film, THE LOST COMMAND? I treasure my CD cleanup of the old "Cinema Records" boot LP obviously pulled from the film stems, complete with faint dialogue bleed-through.

 
 Posted:   Nov 24, 2013 - 11:03 AM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

PFK, oh my goodness, my profile used to say female. Ghosts in my machine? Had to reboot the computer and spent a ton of time not being able to post here. Got a new password. Somehow, my gender changed.....without any surgery. wink Thanks for you comments and for letting me know that this woman was turned into a man. Hope I got it fixed now.

Joan: When I checked several weeks ago, it did indeed read female, although many of us just assume that "Joan" must be a woman, although I think that in some latin countries Joan can be a male (like Johann). Glad to see you fixed your profile!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 24, 2013 - 12:31 PM   
 By:   joan hue   (Member)

Yeah, Ron, you would think the name "Joan" refers to a female; however, I do remember a song called "A Boy Named Sue." smile

 
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