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 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 2:07 AM   
 By:   Alex Cremers   (Member)

Blade Runner's narration... in/out? Deckard is a replicant... in/out? That's not auteur, that's confused.

In 1982, a confused audience gave Blade Runner a thumbs down after several test viewings. So the new producers, who took control after the production got into financial trouble, felt a narration might save the movie. The same producers also told Scott to cut the unicorn sequence. The DC and FC rectify this. Scott didn't change his mind, as you seem to imply here. The DC of 1993 was a hasty job not overseen by Scott. The FC is the first proper 'Director's Cut'.

I don't know what the deal is with the music of Alien.

During a conversation with Kevin Reynolds, Ridley Scott said he only made two auteur films and that's The Duellists and Blade Runner. (What a coincidence! Those happen to be 2 of the 3 Ridley Scott films that I love. The third one is Alien, of course)




Alex

 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 6:56 AM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

When "Blade Runner" was first released, I went to see it, and just HATED the narration, which I found unnecessary and annoying, and was happy to find that many others felt the same.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 7:13 AM   
 By:   Doug Raynes   (Member)

When "Blade Runner" was first released, I went to see it, and just HATED the narration, which I found unnecessary and annoying, and was happy to find that many others felt the same.

I liked the original narration and HATED the director's cut which deleted it and I know many others who feel the same!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 3:05 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

During a conversation with Kevin Reynolds, Ridley Scott said he only made two auteur films and that's The Duellists and Blade Runner. (What a coincidence! Those happen to be 2 of the 3 Ridley Scott films that I love. The third one is Alien, of course)


If I had to choose 3 Scott films for a desert island, and I hope I never do, they would be The Duellists, Alien and Kingdom of Heaven. Never had much time for Blade Runner--altogether too dark for me. The Duellists was quite fascinating, but I think that had more to do with Joseph Conrad than Scott. Kingdom of Heaven gets a pass for the great atmosphere and of course battle scenes, though the script was pretty awful and Orlando Bloom was pretty but awfuller. smile

(BTW, why did he slap that boy, the 'Servant of the Patriarch'? Never got that).

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 3:59 PM   
 By:   Thor   (Member)

I hope you've seen the extended edition, which makes KINGDOM OF HEAVEN somewhat of a masterpiece. The theatrical cut, however, is pants.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 8:22 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

I want to see it, as well as the extended 'Troy', but all they seem to show around here (Oz) is the extended 'Gladiator', which I detest. If only they'd make an abbreviated 'Gladiator', like 7 minutes long.

So why did he slap that boy?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 10:59 PM   
 By:   Alex Cremers   (Member)

Never had much time for Blade Runner--altogether too dark for me.

Buy a new screen! wink


PS: All kidding aside, you don't have time for Blade Runner, one of the best films ever, but you want to see Troy?! Shame on you!

PS 2: OTOH, liking The Duellists does somewhat redeem you ... a little bit. wink

PS 3: The TC of KOH is pants. The DC (nice to have on Blu-ray) corrects a lot what is wrong but it doesn't make it a masterpiece. It is however Scott's best film outside the holy first three films.


Alex

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 5, 2013 - 11:59 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

I maintain that Scott has a really bad eye/ear for what works. Kingdom Of Heaven a bad script too eh? And a terrible theatrical cut? Quite a trend emerging. I see nobody really talks about Legend which - Goldsmith, Tim Curry and Mia Sara aside is monumentally bad.

Anyone can get a movie right after 2 or 3 recuts. Well, apart from George Lucas!

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 1:10 AM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

Never had much time for Blade Runner--altogether too dark for me.

Buy a new screen! wink


PS: All kidding aside, you don't have time for Blade Runner, one of the best films ever, but you want to see Troy?! Shame on you!


Yes, I took Obi Wan's advice and stayed away from the dark side. Besides, nothing in BR connected with me. Repellent (or is that replicant?) characters, rain dripping endlessly from giant industrial fans, Rutger Hauer bending people's thumbs backwards...if that's the future I may just commit suicide and spare myself.

I never felt Troy was as bad as many critics made out, despite its constant attempts to find pragmatic explanations for the workings of the gods (and of course, the presence of Orlando Bloom. Does that man ever quit ruining expensive movies with his insipidity?). It was at least decent, and certainly better than Scott's Roman effort with that Oz thug Russell Crowe.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 1:13 AM   
 By:   Warlok   (Member)

No way I'm going to accept that the dead Space Jockey seen in ALIEN is a suit worn by a human. No freaking way.

You & me both...

Prometheus would have worked better had it NOT referenced ALIEN in any way whatsoever. If he`s going to molest what came before, he ought to leave it completely alone.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 1:39 AM   
 By:   Alex Cremers   (Member)

I maintain that Scott has a really bad eye/ear for what works. Kingdom Of Heaven a bad script too eh? And a terrible theatrical cut? Quite a trend emerging. I see nobody really talks about Legend which - Goldsmith, Tim Curry and Mia Sara aside is monumentally bad.

Anyone can get a movie right after 2 or 3 recuts. Well, apart from George Lucas!


As with Blade Runner, it was out of his hands. The movie that Scott had in mind with KOH was more than 3 hours long but the studio didn't want that (for it would result in less showings per day) so they agreed to cut one (!) hour. They probably already made that agreement on the length of the feature when the contract was signed. In return, the studio allowed for Scott to make any cut he deemed necessary for later theatrical releases and for the home entertainment market (DVD and Blu-ray). The DC of KOH is the true director's cut, the version he originally made. I remember Scott being pretty comfortable with that agreement. What matters is that his preferred version is out there. The rest is commerce.



Alex

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 1:44 AM   
 By:   Francis   (Member)

No way I'm going to accept that the dead Space Jockey seen in ALIEN is a suit worn by a human. No freaking way.

You & me both...

Prometheus would have worked better had it NOT referenced ALIEN in any way whatsoever. If he`s going to molest what came before, he ought to leave it completely alone.


I honestly don't get why revealing the space jockey to being this human race is such a crime against the original! Are people so enamored with the space jockey from the first Alien who:

-was dead and had about a minute of screen time at best?
-whose vessel was merely an excuse to get them to land on the planet (due to the distress signal) in order for them to fall victim to the alien?

Don't get me wrong, I was fascinated by the space jockey ship and disappointed it didn't get addressed in any of the following movies aside from Aliens where the ship is discovered again in the extended version by Newt's parents only to spread the alien infection again.

Prometheus to me gave plenty of backstory to the space jockey and I actually found the new mythology tons more interesting than a dead guy sitting in a cockpit whose ship crashed on a planet. The only interesting thing about that in the original was his design and the setpiece, but you could argue that he is just that, a setpiece! Nowhere in Alien is anything explained or investigated about him because the alien is the main focus.

Anyway, it didn't bother me in the slightest that it was a suit and I found the imagery and backstory in Prometheus convincing enough to make that character who was basically a setpiece (!) work.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 6:54 AM   
 By:   solium   (Member)

No way I'm going to accept that the dead Space Jockey seen in ALIEN is a suit worn by a human. No freaking way.

You & me both...

Prometheus would have worked better had it NOT referenced ALIEN in any way whatsoever. If he`s going to molest what came before, he ought to leave it completely alone.


This exactly.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 1:24 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

Puleeeeeeeeeeze! Ridley Scott has made it clear that he didn't intend "Prometheus" to be a 100% prequel to "Alien" -- otherwise the ship Prometheus would have been even more primitive than the Nostromo in "Alien" and David wouldn't have been the sleek robot eons removed from Ian Holm's in the first. Why get so hung up on such trivialities? Those of us who love movies, and I include you too, must suspend disbelief every time the curtain comes up, and to use something like that to justify not liking "Prometheus" is rather silly.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 3:12 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Puleeeeeeeeeeze! Ridley Scott has made it clear that he didn't intend "Prometheus" to be a 100% prequel to "Alien" -- otherwise the ship Prometheus would have been even more primitive than the Nostromo in "Alien" and David wouldn't have been the sleek robot eons removed from Ian Holm's in the first. Why get so hung up on such trivialities? Those of us who love movies, and I include you too, must suspend disbelief every time the curtain comes up, and to use something like that to justify not liking "Prometheus" is rather silly.

Prometheus very clearly IS a prequel. It's set in the same universe, with the same "company", the origins of the same xenomorph, and even the same sign off. It follows a different narrative strand, that's all. The reason the Nostromo seemed "primitive" is because it was a lumbering old mining ship, its existance post-Prometheus is perfectly feasible.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 3:17 PM   
 By:   gone   (Member)

Puleeeeeeeeeeze! Ridley Scott has made it clear that he didn't intend "Prometheus" to be a 100% prequel to "Alien" -- otherwise the ship Prometheus would have been even more primitive than the Nostromo in "Alien" and David wouldn't have been the sleek robot eons removed from Ian Holm's in the first. Why get so hung up on such trivialities? Those of us who love movies, and I include you too, must suspend disbelief every time the curtain comes up, and to use something like that to justify not liking "Prometheus" is rather silly.

This exactly.

The idea that sci-fi movies are going to be subjected to microscopic scrutiny is an absurd notion. Does one like or dislike Star Trek or Star Wars (or any other sci-fi movie) based on the believability of the details is definitely silly.

In the original Alien the zero gravity issue is solved with one line "activate artificial gravity" and they move on. I don't think they ever bothered with that in Star Wars. But who cares?

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   CinemaScope   (Member)

Puleeeeeeeeeeze! Ridley Scott has made it clear that he didn't intend "Prometheus" to be a 100% prequel to "Alien" -- otherwise the ship Prometheus would have been even more primitive than the Nostromo in "Alien" and David wouldn't have been the sleek robot eons removed from Ian Holm's in the first. Why get so hung up on such trivialities? Those of us who love movies, and I include you too, must suspend disbelief every time the curtain comes up, and to use something like that to justify not liking "Prometheus" is rather silly.

This exactly.

The idea that sci-fi movies are going to be subjected to microscopic scrutiny is an absurd notion. Does one like or dislike Star Trek or Star Wars (or any other sci-fi movie) based on the believability of the details is definitely silly.

In the original Alien the zero gravity issue is solved with one line "activate artificial gravity" and they move on. I don't think they ever bothered with that in Star Wars. But who cares?


Yup, I don't think any science fiction film I've ever seen would stand up to any kind of scrutiny, but that doesn't mean you can't call out a film that's beyond stupid, esp. when it's a big budget A list film...but there's two kinds of bad movie, one you like & one you don't like. I have quite a few dodgy films in my collection which I like very much, but at least I know they're bad.

 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 5:01 PM   
 By:   Ron Hardcastle   (Member)

CS:

Re: "Yup, I don't think any science fiction film I've ever seen would stand up to any kind of scrutiny, but that doesn't mean you can't call out a film that's beyond stupid, esp. when it's a big budget A list film"

I like the first part of that but sincerely hope you weren't referring to "Prometheus" in the second part, i.e. "beyond stupid." There are just too many people who like that movie to tar it like that. Maybe Terrence Mallick's most recent, "Tree of Life," which some of us found soooooooo boring, but then again, there are a lot of other people who seem to admire it, so, by my own logic, I'll have to withdraw it as an example here. Frankly, I am so weary of the know-it-alls who seem to take almost perverse delight in ripping "Prometheus" AND Ridley Scott apart. "Prometheus" was in no way "beyond stupid," however much perverse pleasure it gives some of the holier-than-thous to call it things like that.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 5:12 PM   
 By:   Spymaster   (Member)

Frankly, I am so weary of the know-it-alls who seem to take almost perverse delight in ripping "Prometheus" AND Ridley Scott apart. "Prometheus" was in no way "beyond stupid," however much perverse pleasure it gives some of the holier-than-thous to call it things like that.

A perfectly normal, regular female scientist suffers the pain of having an alien beast growing inside of her, has a machine slice open her stomach, pulls the alien out, then staples (!) her shut (that's major surgery!) and she just gets up... and runs around... and zips up a spacesuit... and acts pretty much like nothing's up...

I'd call that beyond stupid.

Aside from the medical nonsense, a far cleverer twist would have been for the monster to kill her, just as the alien killed Dallas in the first movie. She was clearly set up to be the new Ripley. It would have been smart to plot against expectations. But this isn't a smart movie.

Awful script. Awful.

 
 
 Posted:   Nov 6, 2013 - 5:16 PM   
 By:   pp312   (Member)

The idea that sci-fi movies are going to be subjected to microscopic scrutiny is an absurd notion.

I think what some of us are saying is that Prometheus doesn't have to be subjected to microscopic scrutiny to be found wanting. Just a quick glance at the basic tenets of script construction and character logic/consistency is sufficient.

One thing has struck me about this discussion: only one person has attempted any sort of rebuttal of specific criticisms. Does that mean the others acknowledge the faults but don't care about them, or they just can't be bothered addressing the issue.

 
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