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This is a comments thread about Blog Post: Ben-Hur Lives! by Lukas Kendall
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:32 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

So what's your end-game here? As I see it these are your choices:

1. Return your CDs to Lukas demanding a refund.

2. DON'T return your CDs but demand payment of what you might have gotten on the 'secondary market', though I'm not suggesting you are ticked off because you wanted to re-sell.

3. Sue Lukas for false advertising or something--but you'd have to prove damages, I think, if you want any kind of compensation.

You could, of course, use #3 to make an example of Lukas, have the courts take all his money and bankrupt FSM and Lukas, and thus warn all the other soundtrack companies to watch their steps, because one screwup and they could lose all those billions they've aquired on things like Jerry Goldsmith The Early Years (a great disc, btw).

Where are you going with this?

What do you want for your hardship?



I'm of a like mind as JSWalsh above. But I think it would be an act of good faith for FSM to offer to buy back, at full value, any copy of "Ben-Hur" who's purchaser feels he was duped into buying it by Lukas' prior statements. As to assuaging their sense of betrayal, that'something they will have to come to terms with on their own, and either reflect it or not in their future buying decisions on FSM products.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:33 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

it would inconsiderate to show up!

In your present state of mind, do you not think it is also inconsiderate to show up here?


Another one that must condone lying!

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:36 PM   
 By:   SchiffyM   (Member)

So, every time anyone looks at my CD library, reads the inserts and say, "Wow, there were only 2000 of these made?" My response would be, "No, not really, there were 4000 made, that is just a lie to help sell a release." You would have no problem with me saying that?

In what fantasy world is this scenario taking place?

If you believe that it was a lie to help sell the release (and that's your right), I have no problem with you saying this. It's not what I happen to believe, but we can agree to disagree.

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:36 PM   
 By:   Peter Greenhill   (Member)

So, every time anyone looks at my CD library, reads the inserts and say, "Wow, there were only 2000 of these made?" My response would be, "No, not really, there were 4000 made, that is just a lie to help sell a release."
You would have no problem with me saying that?


What you should say is "There were 4000 made. The first 2000 sold out faster than expected and so more were licensed to meet demand from the fans of this wonderful music.

My final words on this topic.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:42 PM   
 By:   John Smith   (Member)

Mr Woolston,

You're creating a straw man argument. Nobody has even suggested keeping scores unavailable, so why the tirade? You singularly refuse to address any of the the actual points I raised in my earlier post, despite asking me for my position.

However, I conclude from your vigorous defence of Lukas that you unreservedly approve of his selling countless thousands of repressed CDs, despite entering into a clearly-stated agreement with the customer that the number would be limited to 3,000.

Am I right in assuming that, in your opinion, every soundtrack producer has the right to press as many copies of limited releases as his fancy takes him - as long as he feels the market can take it? If Bruce wants to press five thousand copies of his CDs he can do so with impunity - he doesn't even have to tell us that there are more than the "legal" 1000 copies (or so) in existence?


I refuse to address your points? I've replied in detail!

Anyway ...

Do I think Lukas should be able to re-press CDs? Yes, as long as it's legal.

"Despite entering into an agreement..."

There is no 'agreement' here. It is a decision. and businesses can overturn decisions.

I have no problem with sellers realising they underestimated demand and deciding to go back and supply more.

I didn't think I was being vague about that.

Cheers



Mr Woolston,

I was always under the impression that you never resorted to patronising, pompous or disingenuous remarks. I was clearly wrong.

My bad

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:43 PM   
 By:   WILLIAMDMCCRUM   (Member)

It seems to me that Erik is implying that Lukas always knew there'd be 4,000 units, and bluffed it, not that he changed his mind. Erik has made an allegation.

And personally, I don't care a hoot if that was the case.

We all think Lukas and the FSM people are ace guys and we respect them and have benefitted from their efforts over years. But we don't feel the need to 'hold hands and take warm showers with them until the wee small hours'. They aren't our lovers or surrogate parents. We don't have to cry if they forget our birthdays.

It's a business. They haven't hurt us. They haven't torn our little hearts. This is what retailing and marketing and sales psychology is all about.

Erik, when you calm down, you're going to realise you've sold items that won't return. It AGAIN needs to be stressed that FSM is going out of business. Now just suppose that Lukas had other interests in music recording ... other interests in music per se in fact. Let's say, for instance that he was involved in music festivals or rock concerts. Let's just say. Probably a day wouldn't go by without him saying, 'I could be making a helluva lot more from mainstream artists and their catalogues, with all my knowledge of the production business, and with a lot less hassle'. That's just one possible scenario, and there are many.

If he's going out of business as a CD producer, then doesn't he deserve the golden handshake and the carriage clock and the engraved wristwatch and the antique armchair and the going-away party?

He's not asking for any of these. He's making an extra buck off a great release that more than a few fans are clamouring for. If you think this is a betrayal, then you'll be slitting your wrists at what's routinrly done to you without your knowledge by internet companies, shopping malls, etc., etc..

It's BUSINESS.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:45 PM   
 By:   Erik Donovan   (Member)

Can FSM print stickers that say 4000 on them for our inserts?

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:46 PM   
 By:   markbagby   (Member)

The way I see it, the first pressing was limited to 2,000 copies and the second pressing will be limited to 2,000 copies.

And they should be clearly identified as such.


The current statement will be accurate. Mine notes 'This pressing is limited to 2,000 copies'. The second pressing will likely carry the same text. Both statements are accurate. Otherwise, does it really matter? No.

Perhaps Lukas should bump the price up $5 or $10 and change the insert for the second run.

Frankly I can't say I care otherwise. The new pressings will be identical to the first pressings. More importantly, the music is preserved and more widely distributed. This set is PHENOMENAL.

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:47 PM   
 By:   Basil Wrathbone   (Member)

For those of you have acquired, my Rozsa set is sold, and I let it go for less than what I paid for it!
Starting to sell my FSM releases.



Ilderim: Well, will no-one bid for these FSM CDs?
Roman 1: I'll bid sheik!
Roman 2: And me!
Ilderim: A moment, my lords, protectors of the far-flung marches... there are CDs and bargains enough for all. First the prices. Eric Donovan has many rare FSM CDs, the prices should be in the same measure.
Roman 1: Two dollars!
Roman 2: Mark me! I spoke first
Roman 3: Just a moment sheik. We know he has good CDs, but what are the titles?
Ilderim: Oh, did I not tell you? How careless of me! Why... The Towering Inferno for one.
Roman 3: Towering Inferno. Hahaha... that was sold out years ago.
Ilderim: The divine Lukas made them plentiful as always. Well, will no-one give me $5 for Eric Donovan's copy of Towering Inferno?
Messala: $5 it will be.
Romans: Bravo Messala

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:49 PM   
 By:   Bob Shelack   (Member)

So, every time anyone looks at my CD library, reads the inserts and say, "Wow, there were only 2000 of these made?" My response would be, "No, not really, there were 4000 made, that is just a lie to help sell a release."

And I would imagine that most people would respond by saying "Oh, Yeah? Well, even if that is what truly happened I wouldn't worry about it too much. Now calm down, wipe the tears from those eyes and don't throw that lovely looking Ben-Hur soundtrack set against the wall. That's a good fella".

At which point they'd make a hasty exit out of the house, jump in their car and speed off while saying to themselves "Phew, I think I was just about ten seconds away from appearing on one of those missing person posters that they have in police station lobbies!!!".

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 3:54 PM   
 By:   orbital   (Member)

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 4:05 PM   
 By:   drivingmissdaisy   (Member)

Why would Lukas want to get out of making CD's for his own label? I just don't get it...............

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 4:10 PM   
 By:   OneBuckFilms   (Member)

So, every time anyone looks at my CD library, reads the inserts and say, "Wow, there were only 2000 of these made?" My response would be, "No, not really, there were 4000 made, that is just a lie to help sell a release."
You would have no problem with me saying that?


Actually, I'd say this: "No. They made a second pressing of 2000 due to popular demand and the financial needs of the label."

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 4:12 PM   
 By:   Jon Lewis   (Member)

This poor thread needs to be image-bombed out of its misery frown

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 4:16 PM   
 By:   OneBuckFilms   (Member)

Why would Lukas want to get out of making CD's for his own label? I just don't get it...............

Lukas decided to stop producing new CDs through FSM because he was spending more time on paperwork and reporting than actually producing CDs.

He said this in his anouncement, if I remember correctly.

He's probably going to produce a few more titles, then keep the Retrograde/Unlimited releases in print while the limited releases resolve themselves.

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 4:20 PM   
 By:   Bob DiMucci   (Member)

The way I see it, the first pressing was limited to 2,000 copies and the second pressing will be limited to 2,000 copies.

And they should be clearly identified as such.


------------------------------------------

The current statement will be accurate. Mine notes 'This pressing is limited to 2,000 copies'. The second pressing will likely carry the same text. Both statements are accurate.



Yes, completely accurate, and utterly misleading.

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 6:09 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)



The spelling isn't too good here either!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 6:18 PM   
 By:   Pete Apruzzese   (Member)

Can FSM print stickers that say 4000 on them for our inserts?

Tell you what, *I'll* print a custom sticker just for you and mail at my expense if you promise to stop posting. smile

 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 6:18 PM   
 By:   Dana Wilcox   (Member)

Just when I think we've plumbed the very depths of inanity here, something like this comes along. I probably don't really need to say this, but I find myself wanting to hop up on the table with a megaphone and shout: "Lukas! Ignore this! They're kidding!" (I only wish they were.) What utter horse***t!

Mr. Sones, do your duty!

 
 
 Posted:   Mar 9, 2012 - 6:29 PM   
 By:   sr-miller   (Member)

The only way you can be offended by this is if it is the limitedness of it which is important to you.

Well, if that's you, go ahead and be mad.

Me, I'm supporting Lukas' decision, even though I got my Ben-Hur. For me, soundtrack releasing is about reasonable availability, not unreasonable unavailability.

Cheers


I agree.
I don't give a flip about the (eventual) inaccuracy of his statement because that aspect of the CD does not concern me. He didn't deviously (I don't believe) set out to press a certain number of copies with the intent of pressing more "as needed". What a world if everything we said was set in stone and we could never change our minds!
Again, I'm not in the least upset by this "change of plan" as long as there was enough for me to get one (and I did).
(And yes, I would have this same opinion no matter what company had made the release.)

 
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