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 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:15 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

To put it slightly milder than what I would have done in an un-censored environment: Why don't you just sod off?

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:27 PM   
 By:   Miles (MerM)   (Member)

To put it slightly milder than what I would have done in an un-censored environment: Why don't you just sod off?

Why don't you? No one forced you to open this thread and post in it.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:34 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

To put it slightly milder than what I would have done in an un-censored environment: Why don't you just sod off?

Why don't you? No one forced you to open this thread and post in it.




Panda rules!

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:41 PM   
 By:   DavidCoscina   (Member)

I will add some other thoughts on this topic.

I fail to understand why Hans Zimmer feels the need to layer sampled instruments on top of acoustic instruments. I do understand when a composer doesn't have the budget to fortify his orchestral resources so he augments them with sampled instruments (and some libraries are actually quite good at getting close to the real thing). But in his case, he has all the orchestral resources anyone could wish for. yet with all that vaunted power, he ends up rendering real instruments as plastic and in some cases, cheesy sounding. I really don't understand.

And I never will since I actually PM'd him a couple times about conducting an interview not to blast the guy but understand WHY he does what he does. The whole 12 drum circle thing in MOS was conceptually neat sounding but at the end of the day it ended up being more of a marketing gimmick than any real sonic revelation.

I'm sure Hans knows a thing or two about sound physics or I would hope he does- most accomplished orchestrators do which is why they know when over using something will cancel itself out in the frequency spectrum. Using 24 french horns doesn't really sound any different than using 8 to be quite honest. Poledouris' Conan theme isn't any bigger sounding than Wagner's Ring Cycle or Mahler's opening to Song of The Earth (sorry, don't mean to slag Basil on purpose). That whole business about recording the taiko drums for Last Samurai in a way that would make them sound thunderous didn't really achieve anything too profound since the rhythmic patterns applied to them was standard western rock style. Michael Giacchino's SWON Japanese parts are much more appropriate and authentic sounding.

I think Hans has some really neat and creative musical ideas. He really does. And obviously he knows how to score a film regardless of the musical content which is clearly not that important to filmmakers or audiences. I think where many of his critics have issues with is his application of the ideas- either they aren't developed enough (ie simple motivic score that recaps the material with no variation based on dramatic context) or the manner that they are arranged in (ie electronics layered with orchestra).

Hopefully this sheds a little light on the subject in a more analytic light. Maybe it will spurn other responses of this nature?

EDIT- I hope my posts don't serve to confuse forum members about where I stand on HZ. I don't revile the guy any longer. I was incredibly hyped for his MOS score after hearing his trailer music. It was fantastic. I enjoy a few choice cues from the soundtrack. I just re-watched The Dark Knight on Blueray the other evening and thought the score was very good (though the Joker material still reminds me of Goldenthal's approach 12 years earlier for HEAT). Like it or not, HZ is here to stay and is adored by more people than any of us will ever know in our lifetimes. So the question is whether any of us want to spend a lot of time and energy fuming about the injustice of his fame or whether we choose to enjoy the composers that we do like. 'Cause unless one of us owns our own studio or is a powerful producer, none of our posts really mean squat in the big picture.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:46 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:48 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)

he has all the orchestral resources anyone could wish for. yet with all that vaunted power, he ends up rendering real instruments as plastic and in some cases, cheesy sounding. I really don't understand.

I believe his electronic manipulation gives a more "bassy" and "cool" sound.

Think about this: have you ever heard high-pitch trumpet in an R&B song?

No?

It's always the bass and the drum.

Then you get the idea. Low-pitch bass = cool! for those dudebros his music tries to please.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 3:53 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

I believe his electronic manipulation gives a more "bassy" and "cool" sound.

Think about this: have you ever heard high-pitch trumpet in an R&B song?

No?

It's always the bass and the drum.

Then you get the idea. Low-pitch bass = cool! for those dudebros his music tries to please.


By "dudebros" you mean this?

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 4:42 PM   
 By:   Mikal   (Member)

On a side note, given his fame and the millions who idolize him, I'm genuinely surprised that his ego or psyche is so delicate that any naysayers affect him so profoundly. It's truly odd. Does he wish he was universally loved? That isn't going to happen to anyone (even God) and it's quite the slippery slope to hope for that....Dr Phil segment is now finished.

I don't think he minds naysayers in and of themselves so much as he does people who are misinformed/ignorant.

I remember watching a Gladiator featurette in which Zimmer states that no one beats him up more than he beats himself up. That, and countless other statements he's made, have convinced me that he at least aims to stay grounded via self-deprecation and humility.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 4:52 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)



By "dudebros" you mean this?



Yes. And nerds that secretly want to become dudebros (i.e. Man of Steel's target demographic) .

When Zimmer is not trying to please those guys, he is at least decent. See, e.g. Rango, with proper un-processed high-pitch fiddling etc.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 4:56 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

I remember watching a Gladiator featurette in which Zimmer states that no one beats him up more than he beats himself up. That, and countless other statements he's made, have convinced me that he at least aims to stay grounded via self-deprecation and humility.

YOR does not agree.

All this Zimmer's giberish sounds to YOR just like the old false modesty trick.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 5:01 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)



By "dudebros" you mean this?



Yes. And nerds that secretly want to become dudebros (i.e. Man of Steel's target demographic) .


 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 5:13 PM   
 By:   Justin Boggan   (Member)

It';s hard to pick, but right now it might be a three way tie with:

Any Nolan Batman score (lumped together)
"Black Hawk Down"
and "Mission: Impossible 2"

(though I think I might eventually switch out Batman for "Man of Steel")


With honorable mention to these pieces of garbage:
"The Ring"
"Bird on a Wire"
"Inception"

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 5:31 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

It';s hard to pick, but right now it might be a three way tie with:

Any Nolan Batman score (lumped together)
"Black Hawk Down"
and "Mission: Impossible 2"

(though I think I might eventually switch out Batman for "Man of Steel")


With honorable mention to these pieces of garbage:
"The Ring"
"Bird on a Wire"
"Inception"


 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 6:55 PM   
 By:   Ray Worley   (Member)

Well, I'm not a Zimmerlover, but not a hater either. What I most dislike about Zimmer is his influence and over use. And that somehow his worst tendencies are the ones that so many producers and directors were most drawn to. That he gives them what they want is good business but makes for extremely poor art in my opinion.

I really like some of his scores: "Gladiator" is excellent...the opening battle sequence still blows me away. Unlike common opinion here, I rather liked "Inception". Its relentless force works very well with the forward momentum of the story.

On the othe hand, I hated, hated, hated his approach to the Nolan Batman films. Worst ever IMHO. And "Man of Steel" was a complete dud and a wasted opportunity.

As to the whole idea of this thread ...just for contrast, I AM a complete Goldsmith lover and I would have no objection to someone starting a "Goldsmith's worst score" thread. And I wouldn't come into it to start trolling his detractors. In fact, I could name a couple of his scores that don't work.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 7:25 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

To each one's own, but I find most of MR Zimmer's scores to be enjoyable so it would be a hard pick to say which was his worst.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 7:26 PM   
 By:   facehugger   (Member)



As to the whole idea of this thread ...just for contrast, I AM a complete Goldsmith lover and I would have no objection to someone starting a "Goldsmith's worst score" thread. And I wouldn't come into it to start trolling his detractors. In fact, I could name a couple of his scores that don't work.


Here is a healthy lifestyle! As a fellow Goldsmith lover I wholeheartedly agree. And some Goldsmith's scores are just atrocious, even worse than Zimmer scores.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 7:30 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Well, I'm not a Zimmerlover, but not a hater either. What I most dislike about Zimmer is his influence and over use. And that somehow his worst tendencies are the ones that so many producers and directors were most drawn to. That he gives them what they want is good business but makes for extremely poor art in my opinion.



I really like some of his scores: "Gladiator" is excellent...the opening battle sequence still blows me away.

You that the battle sequence from "Gladiator" is a note-by-note copy of Morricone's "Secret of the Sahara", right? Just check, it is really embarrassing:





As to the whole idea of this thread ...just for contrast, I AM a complete Goldsmith lover and I would have no objection to someone starting a "Goldsmith's worst score" thread. And I wouldn't come into it to start trolling his detractors. In fact, I could name a couple of his scores that don't work.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 7:52 PM   
 By:   dan the man   (Member)

Beautiful music.

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 7:55 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Beautiful music.

Indeed. Morricone is fucking genious!

 
 Posted:   Sep 3, 2013 - 8:01 PM   
 By:   YOR The Hunter From The Future   (Member)

Here is a healthy lifestyle! As a fellow Goldsmith lover I wholeheartedly agree. And some Goldsmith's scores are just atrocious, even worse than Zimmer scores.

 
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