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Odds, Ends -
Perhaps the most notable latter day use of LT. KTJE was as the score for Alec Guinness's film of Romain Gary's THE HORSE'S MOUTH. I highly recommend film and music. (I happen to love KTJE as pure music, too.)
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Strictly speaking, THE JAZZ SINGER may have started the craze for sound movies, but it was not actuality a full-blown "talkie." It was a silent movie with Vitaphone song sequences, into which Jolson interjected ad libs which created a sensation.
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I would actually say that the first truly great film score as such was indeed Max Steiner's KING KONG.
Great meaning here among other things, it had considerable and lasting impact, it added an emotional dimension to the special effects adventure movie and established a since then widely used film musical vocabulary. It may not have been "better" than some of the scores that preceded it, but this one made a big footprint (like the one from the giant ape... you know... get it? Oh, alright, I stop.)
It is famous that Camille Saint-Saens was among the first composers to write for the silver screen, and his score for The Assassination of the Duke of Guise is excellent. I would think though that it wasn't as influential, while I would say there is a "before/after" Steiner's KING KONG divide. But obviously a case could be made for Saint-Saens as well.
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Posted: |
Jan 27, 2015 - 5:16 AM
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By: |
Graham Watt
(Member)
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some people have already - half jokingly i think - suggested titles from the 1980s as the first truly great film score... i don't mean to hijack the thread, but it does seem like we could go round in circles forever debating king kong, silent cinema etc... so it might actually be quite interesting to hear what people's personal earliest favourites are - scores which might be from the '30s say, but which you love as intensely as star wars or flashdance or interstellar...
it would be nice if i could give my own example, but i'm still thinking about it... i was never a fan of max steiner, so although i understand kong's importance and what it achieves, it's just not my kind of music... i do like franz waxman, but again bride of frankenstein was never too appealing to me.
i'm wondering if my earliest fave might have actually been from the '40s - something like david raksin's forever amber... don't forget folks, we're talking 10 outta 10 amazing and totally subjective masterpieces here, so no 9 outta 10s or mere historic milestones please.
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It is famous that Camille Saint-Saens was among the first composers to write for the silver screen, and his score for The Assassination of the Duke of Guise is excellent. I would think though that it wasn't as influential, while I would say there is a "before/after" Steiner's KING KONG divide. But obviously a case could be made for Saint-Saens as well.
There is definitely a 'before and after' for KING KONG as far as film music in a SOUND film is concerned, but the vernacular that you speak of was established and explored in decades before that (the dramatic application of music -- as an extension of programmatic music of various kinds). The only difference between, say, a score like BATTLESHIP POTEMKIN and KING KONG likes only in the relation to sound, the diegetic vs. the non-diegetic etc.
But yeah -- I like these historical milestone poles in film music history, of which KING KONG is one.
Indeed and most certainly has the dramatic application of music been established and explored decades before KING KONG, even decades before actual film. Richard Strauss, Richard Wagner, or even Hector Berlioz and Franz Liszt... dramatic (film) music didn't originate in a vacuum. And as soon as you mark a score with that "first great score flag", it is legitimate for someone else to ask: "why this one and not that one?"
KING KONG is just where I put that marker, particularly for its lasting effect and timeless appeal for both the movie and its music.
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some people have already - half jokingly i think - suggested titles from the 1980s as the first truly great film score... i don't mean to hijack the thread, but it does seem like we could go round in circles forever debating king kong, silent cinema etc... so it might actually be quite interesting to hear what people's personal earliest favourites are - scores which might be from the '30s say, but which you love as intensely as star wars or flashdance or interstellar...
it would be nice if i could give my own example, but i'm still thinking about it... i was never a fan of max steiner, so although i understand kong's importance and what it achieves, it's just not my kind of music... i do like franz waxman, but again bride of frankenstein was never too appealing to me.
i'm wondering if my earliest fave might have actually been from the '40s - something like david raksin's forever amber... don't forget folks, we're talking 10 outta 10 amazing and totally subjective masterpieces here, so no 9 outta 10s or mere historic milestones please.
There are some early film scores that I really love... Herrmann's CITIZEN KANE or especially Rozsa's THIEF OF BAGDAD, for example (both 1940). I like Steiner's KING KONG or THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME, too, but Herrmann and Rozsa are closer to my heart.
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Posted: |
Jan 27, 2015 - 8:31 AM
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By: |
RoryR
(Member)
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Indeed and most certainly has the dramatic application of music been established and explored decades before KING KONG, even decades before actual film. Richard Strauss, Richard Wagner, or even Hector Berlioz and Franz Liszt... dramatic (film) music didn't originate in a vacuum. And as soon as you mark a score with that "first great score flag", it is legitimate for someone else to ask: "why this one and not that one?"
KING KONG is just where I put that marker, particularly for its lasting effect and timeless appeal for both the movie and its music.
"Lastingness" often defines what is "greatness." I'd tend to say KING KONG too, in that it's now the best known example of when a movie was first truly uplifted by a score; had its "scope" enlarged. It's hard to imagine KING KONG now without the music, nearly everything you're supposed to be feeling during that movie is as much an affect of its score as it is the visual images. I'd also rank THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD as the second best example during the first decade of sound films of a score doing this same thing, with BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN a close third.
KING KONG's score often gets knocked as an example of the music "Mickey Mouse-ing" the picture it accompanies. Well, KING KONG is an animated movie, too, so I think that critique doesn't hold up.
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Indeed and most certainly has the dramatic application of music been established and explored decades before KING KONG, even decades before actual film. Richard Strauss, Richard Wagner, or even Hector Berlioz and Franz Liszt... dramatic (film) music didn't originate in a vacuum. And as soon as you mark a score with that "first great score flag", it is legitimate for someone else to ask: "why this one and not that one?"
KING KONG is just where I put that marker, particularly for its lasting effect and timeless appeal for both the movie and its music.
"Lastingness" often defines what is "greatness." I'd tend to say KING KONG too, in that it's now the best known example of when a movie was first truly uplifted by a score; had its "scope" enlarged. It's hard to imagine KING KONG now without the music, nearly everything you're supposed to be feeling during that movie is as much an affect of its score as it is the visual images. I'd also rank THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD as the second best example during the first decade of sound films of a score doing this same thing, with BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN a close third.
KING KONG's score often gets knocked as an example of the music "Mickey Mouse-ing" the picture it accompanies. Well, KING KONG is an animated movie, too, so I think that critique doesn't hold up.
THE ADVENTURES OF ROBIN HOOD and BRIDE OF FRANKENSTEIN were also both seminal scores, no question about it.
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