So what incarnation of a Buffy thread are we working on here? I've lost count.

I neglected to give a heads up to everyone that was posting last time. So here it is then (my heads up). How do?

**Spoilers happen below**

I was pretty pleased with last night's Buffy/Angel block. No complaints. I've either missed something, or the mysterious and completely un-addressed way Dawn materialized into the series is the most subtly cryptic and weird character introduction I've ever seen. For the record, I've somehow managed to miss half of the season one and two broadcasts, so if there's ever been any verbal allusion to Buffy having a sister in the past I've missed it. But somehow, with regard to Dawn's portentous closing diary entry and the frightening street-freak encounter, I envision something Joanthan-esque about the way no direct mention has been made about just where the hell this girl came from. The Buffy crew are masters at deliberately trying to slip something past you, which--to the more attentive viewer--results in a big ol', juicy -as-hell question mark of intrigue when these unvoiced considerations rise to the surface. On the whole, a hilarious episode...and I'm always amazed at how such a massive ensemble cast--with second string characters like Harmony being effortlessly re-integrated back into the action--is juggled so deftly. Wanker's stuff was completely competent, while not being too arrestingly brilliant.

Angel was creepily noirish, and ultimately kind of poignant. I love the way Angel's made--as Wesley mentioned--to walk the difficult path between his former, darker nature of one all too willing to cut and run, signing off on the fates of many (letting sleeping demons lie)--and his current reformed or reforming self... Beyond that, are we to read Charisma Carpenter's butt tattoo as hers, or Cordelia's? It's big, and probably took a while to apply; that conjures quite an image. Klar's score reminded me of Hermann's Vertigo in the early scenes; effectively moody stuff. Not just solid television, I usually make some utterance when the Buffy/Angel credits roll that these shows are often just great filmmaking.

--Cooper

Wanker's score, and please keep in mind that I liked his score for Dracula--I thought was generic and in no way distinctive. The only cue that stood out, for entirely the wrong reason, was the one that sounded uncomfortably like Newman's main theme for American Beauty (which I'd bet they temped that scene with). The softer moments again were lacking. Interestingly, the score was SO low in the mix that at many points, it was almost inaudible. They NEVER did that with Beck's music, it was always mixed at a decent level, in complete partnership with the dialogue. They pretty much buried the score in the mix, and I doubt that's accidental.

BUT. I refuse to form an opinion yet, it's only the second ep and to be fair, he needs to settle in, get to know what Joss wants and probably, get them to stop wanting him to sound like Beck. So I'm still in listening mode, with an open mind.

As for Angel, LOVED it. And the music, loved that as well. Robert Kral's best score so far. Wonderfully moody & evocative.

Joan: (who said she didn't much care for Willow). My bro didn't like her either at first, but he's come around!

Jack: So you caught that "curds & whey" reference too, huh? Referring back to that all important riddle in Buffy's dream: Little Miss Muffet, counting down to 730. I guess now we know who Little Miss Muffet is...

Remember when Tara deliberately sabotaged a spell by tossing away a handful of powder? Nothing came of that.

So I'm not so sure the producers are going to do anything nifty about Dawn's identity. They may just let these hints slide and forget about it.

I, too, hope that this latest episode is Jonathanesque in structure. At least in the original Jonathan ep, we were eventually drawn into what was going on and saw it end.
Here, I am torn between being totally disgusted and somewhat fascinated.
Too many references were made, to be sure, about Buffy's "older sister" beefs with Dawn. Jeepers! Dawn had been in the episode about 15 minutes and the script would have you believe she had been there since Day 1. Not only that, but they negated every single thing that has happened to Buffy up through the Dracula episode.

Clearly they have something up their sleeves. That,or they have no regard whatsoever for their viewers.
Nothing has happened yet to make me believe the latter, so I really can't wait to see how that all develops.

Angel, on the other hand, is head-and-shoulders better than it's been since they killed off Doyle. (That was tragic. Even more tragic was that they brought Wesley in to replace him. Come ON! I do see less bungling in Wesley's character so maybe they're trying to beef him up.) They need to keep finding ways to avoid making Angel constantly morose. That karaoke bar was GREAT!

It's really cool that Angel is going to set up shop in that hotel.

And as for Tara and her intentionally botching that spell...YEAH! Hey! I've been waiting to find out about that....!!!

Let's bitch about it. Who do we write and where?

Ron

I think back on that Tara sequence from time to time myself. I have a theory that that scene was sort of intended to be read metaphorically, as Tara sort of ribbing Willow about her only dropping by to do "spells". Since casting and alchemy have sort of shrewdly been used to allude to sex throughout their relationship on the show, I read Tara's blowing the spell as--no joke--her withholding sex with the intent to push Willow into recognizing she was looking for something a little deeper. Of course it always sounds ridiculous to give metaphors completely literal readings like that, but that's why they're metaphors. Just think of that infamous casting scene... Are you laughing at me? Har. Err, well, it's a theory, at any rate...

Ron:

I think it's a real achievement for Joss Whedon and company to have found a way to keep me on my toes while watching Buffy; I fell right into their trap last episode, assuming that the way Dawn's addition to the show was handled was just plain sloppy and poorly developed. It's damned refreshing not be right on this score, because with most lesser shows I would be. Given Debi's testimony to the effect that no allusion has ever been made to Buffy having had a sister, her being referred to as an only child (I missed several early episodes), and the various clues peppered throughout the last week's episode; the "curds and whey" thing from the street freak, the closing journal entry...I've got to own up to my knee-jerk reaction being totally off the mark. They've definitely got something up their sleeves, all right. It was a blast being suckered, though. I can't believe I fell for it! Can't wait to see what comes to light over the next few weeks.

--Cooper

All (and anyone else wondering if the BtVS writers have gone NUTS):

After the last ep (Real Me) aired, the BtVS message board was bombarded with posts, some from folks genuinely confused (understandably), some blasting the writers/Whedon for being "idiots" who screwed the continuity to hell. It got pretty insulting.

Anyway, the writer of the ep, David Fury, did post. He was asked if they were going to pull a "dallas" where seasons 1-4 were a dream. He responded that he hoped we'd have more respect for them than THAT. Asked if they were surprised at the intensity of the reaction & folks not getting that this was a "mysterious plot twist," he indicated they'd expected it, but admitted to being disappointed at the "lack of trust and open-mindedness of some posters" --referring to the vitriolic "the writers are idiots, Buffy suddenly has a sister, what are they trying to pull?" posts. Geez, have a little faith (no pun intended)! As Ron said, have the writers dis-respected our intelligence in the past? We know why Buffy's father isn't around. But her sister appears and the writer doesn't have ANYone offer an explanation as to where she's been all this time? Not bloody likely.

Clearly, they knew we'd be confused, but hoped we'd realize something was up & would be willing to go along for the ride. So, guys, it's speculation time! Any theories???

My first thought was that she is some type of a demon or
spiritual thingamagigie placed into the family by a spirit.
All characters’ minds were toyed (voodooized) with so that she
would appear like she has always been in existence and is a natural
part of their memories. I’m still contemplating that possibility, but
I don’t know her purpose. Perhaps she was sent by the prior
great slayers to facilitate Buffy’s journey into total selfhood and
realization of her powers and past. Dawn seems to be on a
natural journey herself given her early adolescence and its
natural bridge into young adulthood, desire to join the group,
and her reconciliation to her lack of Buffy powers. In fact
IDENTITY CRISES seems to be a major theme for Giles, Buffy,
Dawn, and Xander. All parallel threads heading towards....?
These are just my random speculations. Best discovery was
reading the above threads and discovering that I “is” sane. http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/smile.gif">

Angel is just plain getting better and better.

Joan (and anyone else): what was your opinion of Wanker's score for the second ep?

I cued up the Dark Angel pilot last night, and I was mystified by the positive buzz on it.

I had to rewind and check the main titles for a James Cameron writing credit (it was there...), as the show was rife with his lame brand of "tough-talk" wit and catty interplay. I think his dialog sucks; unlike other stylized banter, his material could never be spoken convincingly, anywhere, by anyone. Buffy wit, by contrast, is owned by the actors...and you can believe those characters are actually mouthing those words. Ugh, I probably shouldn't go on with this; I'm not terribly objective about Cameron material; it offers a weird, applied catalog self-consciously hip trappings, while the emotional intelligence and design are totally simplistic. There's a flashiness there, but absolutely no psychological depth or genuineness.

Dark Angel is also an obvious attempt at cloning Buffy. There's even a facsimile Giles figure who will no doubt shape the Dark Angel's mission, offer her training, etc. The setup allows for a more socio-political brand of Hellmouth, so Jessica Alba will have a Sunnydale's worth of heavies to butt-kick her way through. What I was left with was an aped Buffy with zero dramatic interest and a more monochromotaic, Batman-esque midnight blue and black color scheme. Thoroughly uninspired and unoriginal. Err, wow. I have to learn not to hold back so much.

Anyone else catch it? What did you all think?

--Cooper

Cooper: Didn't see Dark Angel. I have Cameron issues. He "borrows" from other writers. A lot. Been sued for it at least once that I know of. Can't support someone who commits THAT unpardonable sin. I've mostly been hearing DA was unoriginal… gee, y'think?

Okay, Wanker's 3rd score, for The Replacement…

The good: I liked the way he developed the off-kilter stuff under Xander. Motif continued thru several scenes, and added a bit more each time. Action stuff was competent. The not-so-good: there were many times where scenes seemed underspotted, WANTING music, needing music because the pace just bogged down. We continue to get little to nothing under the more serious, introspective scenes (Xander/Anya, Xander/Willow) and I miss it. Badly. That last scene with Riley's stunning admission to Xander, esp., needed better musical underpinning, IMO.

Debi:

My gut tells me that--while nothing about Wanker's stuff has grated on me as a result of being lame or incompetent--nothing terribly arresting or effective has been done, as yet. Last year this time, I was already acquainted with the "musical identity" of season four; I still remember Beck's new fight motif and the sad/plaintive theme he penned for Buffy's early, disconcerting days on an unfamiliar new campus.

This also amounts to the weakest season kick-off trend for Buffy that I can remember; I'm beginning to fear Xander "Gilliganization" myself. Virtually none of the humor worked for me Tuesday night, especially the slapstick. And for whatever reason, the Star Trek plotline rehash--while a knowing reference--didn't work for me this time. They were doing a riff on "The Enemy Within," I think, in which Kirk was split into a stronger, more assertive half and his Softer Side of Sears side. Unlike Whedon's body-swapping take on the other Star Trek inspired plotline of last season--from "Turnabout Intruder"--which managed to really do something new with the convention, The Replacement was mostly rehash. Still, not awful by any stretch of the imagination...just a little on the uninspired side for my tastes. But then last week's Buffy/Angel entries were completely satisfying, so I can't complain too much. As for Angel, it was mildly amusing to see Cordy on unfamiliar turf, and a few "moments" worked--Angel's motorcycle helmet dilemma--but this was merely "TV," whereas last week we had something more. I'll cue 'em up again sometime, in a quieter room, and see how I feel then.

--Cooper

quote:

---

Originally posted by debi:
I have Cameron issues. He "borrows" from other writers. A lot. Been sued for it at least once that I know of. Can't support someone who commits THAT unpardonable sin. I've mostly been hearing DA was unoriginal… gee, y'think?

---

What was he sued for? I never heard anything about it. And yea, DARK ANGEL was absolutely horrendous. Alba was terrible, there was hardly any sense of urgency to anything, practically no story, and a coule subplots (involving other characters) that had nothing whatsoever to do with the rest of what was going on.

I had an odd take on the Buffy episode. I was sure at first that the
“cool clean Xander” really was a demon, because quite frankly, I’ve
rarely (never?) seen that side of him. The dweeby side seemed like the
normal Xander to me. Don’t know if the rest of you had the same feelings.
I almost didn’t want them to merge at the end, as I preferred cool
Xander. Episodes continue to explore identity crises or the duality
of natures: immature vs. mature, acceptance vs. rejection, growing into
a comfortable, adult skin vs. societal expectations, etc.

Joan: Well, we certainly haven't seen that side of Xander for awhile. Generally comes out when he's being protective, or angry. He'll say what others won't and pretty forcefully, too. Looks like you've nailed a major theme for this season! What DID you think of that last Riley/Xander scene? Did it surprise you?

Cooper: IMO in order for Xander to grow, he HAD to learn that it's within him TO grow. I think this ep threw people who were expecting something like "A New Man" & when you're expecting funny, things seem to be misfiring. Heck, *I* expected it to be funny but that very first scene-X's parents screaming/throwing things--NOT funny. Then Xander/Anya ALSO arguing (& about the same topic, I'd bet)--very uncomfortable. Anya dealing with her mortality, Xand's insecurities, not to mention Riley's bombshell. I thought there was an undercurrent of sadness thru the whole ep.

Also, let's not underestimate the power of the music, which effects critical things like pacing, helps to "sell" you emotionally, and drives the action forward. If that's off, the eps can seem off.

Not sure what to think about the Riley/Xander last scene. Quite sad IMHO. Is it true? Is he totally in love and is she just infatuated, which will which will in time break his heart? Is there another chance eventually for Angel? I can't even guess where all that will head. The evaluation of relationships seems to be another theme that will be explored.

- He's not Mr Charisma.

- He fills no crucial dramatic void or archetypal role.

- A satisfied and contented Buffy is not as interesting as one filled with longing.

- Happy Buffy is harder to like, because she has absolutely everything. Health, intelligence, youth, looks, affluence, cute shoes, super strength, and noogie whenever she wants it. It's too much to take. Give me some angst!

In summation, Kill Riley. And let the Buffinator feel guilty for her lack of true grief, let her feel low and unworthy, and tell some gut ripping stories, baby, yeah!

Willow's gotten more interesting recently, what with her attraction to Tara. One of the best parts of last season was Buffy being unable to hide her anxiety over news of The Willster's unconventional relationship. So here again we have a character's conflicts and insecurities making her suddenly more interesting. Perfect Buffy = Bland Buffy. Show me those human foibles, man!

Debi: I found the Xander's parents stuff sort of blackly humorous. There was a sadness to it, but that didn't drain the humor from those scenes. I have little doubt that the Xander pratfalls were intended to be funny in that episode, and there were many of them. None of 'em worked...and they made the episode feel desperate to entertain, and that was before the "Snoopy Dance". I couldn't help but feel that the broad physical comedy schtick was masking a lack of inspiration.

As for the contribution of music, I've been thinking about that too. A comic sensibility can really be aided enormously by a score; for some reason I'm thinking of the third season Xander episode, "Go for Doughnuts," or whatever it was called...the one where Faith beds Xand and those hags attempt to open the Hellmouth for the umpteenth time; the zany mood and feel of that one was no doubt maintained--in large part--due to Beck's score. I wonder if I would have liked The Replacement better had he scored it?

Anyone else heard about ABC's interest in acquiring Buffy should the WB refuse to pay a 2 million per-episode rate for the show next season? Entertainment Weekly mentioned that, as well as the show's growth in viewership by 12 percent in the latest issue. Contract negotiations are said to get underway this January. Sounds as though there could well be a sixth season of The Buffinator...

I'm psyched for tonight's eppies!

--Cooper

Multiple edits due to way heinous spelling...

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Angel: Well, I know what *I* thought. What did everyone else think of Meredyth's first scripting effort?

Zap: much as I feel for Riley, I know in my heart you're right.

Joan: I wasn't sure if it was just Riley's insecurities talking or if he had actually perceived something true. However, I DO notice that once again last night, Buffy did not say the 3 little words. She's never said them to him, in fact. I NEED you is not I LOVE you.

Cooper: Last week's ep was sadly lacking musicwise in both the comic & the angsty moments. And this last ep, they used a Beck cue under Riley/Buffy. Some other music sounded vaguely familiar as well, but THAT cue I know was his.