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 Posted:   Sep 26, 2016 - 1:26 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

Astronomers using NASA's Hubble Space Telescope have imaged what may be water vapor plumes erupting off the surface of Jupiter's moon Europa. This finding bolsters other Hubble observations suggesting the icy moon erupts with high altitude water vapor plumes.

The observation increases the possibility that missions to Europa may be able to sample Europa’s ocean without having to drill through miles of ice.


Sources:

http://www.space.com/34197-water-vapor-plumes-on-europa-possibly-snapped-by-hubble-video.html
http://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-hubble-spots-possible-water-plumes-erupting-on-jupiters-moon-europa

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2016 - 2:09 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Speaking of water plums.....

This Is Just To Say
William Carlos Williams, 1883 - 1963

I have eaten
the plums
that were in
the icebox

and which
you were probably
saving
for breakfast

Forgive me
they were delicious
so sweet
and so cold

 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2016 - 5:41 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Plenty more where that stuff came from. wink

Edit: that's a plumdinger!

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2016 - 6:03 PM   
 By:   OnyaBirri   (Member)

Well I certainly hope so. Honey mangos are now out of season, and the availability of Europan water plums may help to fill the void.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 26, 2016 - 6:19 PM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

It was a very plum plume...

 
 Posted:   Sep 27, 2016 - 7:53 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)

Didn't Linda Morabito find this about a zillion years ago??

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2016 - 7:21 AM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Morabito found evidence on Io in 1979, not Europa.

 
 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2016 - 7:29 AM   
 By:   Last Child   (Member)

Yeah but that was water. This is plums.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2016 - 5:48 PM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

Geoff Yoder, a NASA administrator, said, “These plumes, if they do indeed exist, may provide another way to sample Europa’s subsurface.”

Smudge in the image > water vapor plumes > life. Par for the course for mainstream astronomy. Hype is a necessary ingredient to keep the money flowing. "Geysers" were spotted previously near Europa's south polar region, but follow-up observations could find no evidence of geyser activity.

There are alternative explanations for the observations, but they do not induce heart palpitations like "we could find extraterrestrial life without much drilling if we could get out there right now!"

Color me skeptical.

 
 Posted:   Sep 28, 2016 - 6:42 PM   
 By:   Solium   (Member)

We're always gonna fantasize about life elsewhere until we find it. (if it exists) More evidence of water plumes are a huge discovery because it will make it exceedingly easier and cheaper to sample Europa's oceans without landing and drilling. Lets face it if we find life else where it will probably be on a microbial level anyway. I don't expect an ocean full of complex life forms even if we could drill down there.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 7:03 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Even if we didn't exist, the Universe would still talk to itself. It has it's own laws and housekeeping routines. It plays games - of an evolutionary nature.

Ming the Merciless would like another plum before annihilation.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 2:00 PM   
 By:   Sigerson Holmes   (Member)

Speaking of evolution . . .

If there are plums on Europa today, dare we hope that someday there will be prunes on Europa?!

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 2:10 PM   
 By:   Sean Nethery   (Member)

Aw, dry up!

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 2:29 PM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Speaking of evolution . . .

If there are plums on Europa today, dare we hope that someday there will be prunes on Europa?!


At the end of the day, the anticipation of waiting to be told there's water under a (captured?) moon clothed in ice . . . was just a little bit of a let down. As for complex life, what if we are the miracle that exists nowhere else?

Also, Enceladus in orbit around Saturn has the same kind of structure as Europa. I'd be more interested in why two similar objects are in orbit around two different outer giant planets. Not quite as spectacular on the face of it, but deeper down, a much more central point needing clarification. We could also ask how such stark differences occur between two different moons in orbit around the same planet (Europa and Io). Does this have something to do with how they are shaked and baked? Could they have originated somewhere else further out in the solar system? If so, you'd think they'd all be blocks of ice, but maybe there's an onion ring at the furthest reaches of the solar system where bands of differentiation occur. These are the more interesting questions.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 4:25 PM   
 By:   Metryq   (Member)

Grecchus wrote: Does this have something to do with how they are shaked and baked?

That is the key question, and all the exoplanetary data we've accumulated (and much of the Solar planetary data) strongly suggests the nebular hypothesis is fatally flawed. The flaws in the nebular hypothesis include the ideas that everything formed at the same time and "in place."

Oh, there are speculations that this or that body was "captured" from somewhere else during the early days of the Solar system, but the orbital mechanics are never adequate. The other notion—that any given body in the system may be younger than the others—is never entertained for even a moment by establishment astronomy. And so we have conundrums like how Titan could have such a thick atmosphere with such a low surface acceleration if it were as old as the rest of the Solar system is believed to be. Similar problems exist elsewhere with compounds that should not exist after so much time, unless they are replenished in some way—and that's when the mental contortions begin. The usual explanation is that the material is replenished from hidden, underground reservoirs—an explanation that explains nothing.

The two concepts I see in almost every planetary science article are:

* This or that mission will finally answer all the unanswered mysteries of how the Solar system formed, and

* When the mission instead turns around and gives us new mysteries, some mission scientist will say "We are mystified and will have to go back to the drawing board." Yet nothing new ever comes off the drawing board.

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 8:24 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)

Yeah but that was water. This is plums./

MADE ME LAUGH!!!

 
 Posted:   Sep 29, 2016 - 8:26 PM   
 By:   Sir David of Garland   (Member)

Lets face it if we find life else where it will probably be on a microbial level anyway.

Bingo, Solly. This is why I don't get excited when some astro-geek sees pixels in a picture that show something like here on earth.

 
 Posted:   Oct 2, 2016 - 7:55 AM   
 By:   Grecchus   (Member)

Lets face it if we find life else where it will probably be on a microbial level anyway.

Bingo, Solly. This is why I don't get excited when some astro-geek sees pixels in a picture that show something like here on earth.


We see the things that we do on earth simply because . . . it is earth. Anywhere else in the solar system is not earth, therefore, do not expect to find what is on earth off the earth. This lump is where its at. You may find bits of construction material for what we know of as predicating life, elsewhere, but there won't be life because it is not here. We need to examine a lot more closely than hitherto, what it is about the planet earth and all it's dimensions giving causation to life. We must not assume the obvious.

 
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